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  #1 (permalink)  
Old January 22nd, 2006, 07:14 AM
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Default Formal means formal!

It never ceases to amaze me how people will interpret the dress code "formal." I guess formal to me means something different than to others.

On formal night on our cruise I saw a father (thirtysomething) and his two sons (early teens) wearing dirty blue jeans with a collared shirt and a tie. The shirts were not even tucked in to the pants.

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Old January 22nd, 2006, 09:50 AM
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Default Thomas

I have to agree with you.

It still amazes me that people can be so rude and inconsiderate.

Did you complain to the Maitre'd? did you get names, times, a photo? If so write to the line and formally complain that the experience you WERE promissed was diminished by the LACK of enforcement of their rules.

This NEEDS to be done frequently and consistanty for the lines to keep up with their rules. Its almost like self policing....And if we don't do it there will be more, and more, and more incidences of this kind.

Be upfront about it, walk over to the table with your camera and take a picture, ask them why they are breaking the dress code, and that you feel they are being disrespectful. I do it...I've never been beaten up, although I've gotten dirty looks from them the rest of the cruise...however sometimes I have noticed better dress or behavior afterwards.

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Old January 22nd, 2006, 01:02 PM
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I prefer to look at the food on my plate rather than the clothes on the other diners. To each his own.
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Old January 22nd, 2006, 02:29 PM
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Burbur

Please tell me that your posting was tongue in cheek and not serious!!!

JennC
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Old January 22nd, 2006, 03:05 PM
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We just got our documentation today and the wording for men re: the formal night was dark suit suggested.

Once that word suggested is in there - anything goes.

After all - they paid for the trip too.
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Old January 22nd, 2006, 06:59 PM
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Default for those of you who may not have completed high school...

some RELEVENT definitions:

FORMAL: 2 a : following or according with established form, custom, or rule <lacked formal schooling> <a formal dinner party> <formal attire>

The established CUSTOM on ships for a formal night is traditional or customary formal attire. I.E TUXEDOS or the equivalent and GOWNS or cocktail dresses. HOWEVER, the definition has been broadened to include DARK SUITS AND PANTSUITS

relating to or suitable for wearing to an event requiring elegant dress and manners <dress code is formal tonight> <a shop that rents out formal wear> -- see DRESS

Once again....

By the way, in reference to SUGGESTED in relation to wearing formal attire, it would be an alternative to a tux or dinner jacket. Suggested DOES NOT mean whatever you choose to wear, AND in line with the word FORMAL means it would be the alternative to wearing TRADITIONAL attire , which would be a tux, or dinner jacket outfit.

The word SUGGESTED:

2 to put forward as one's choice for a wise or proper course of action <

the key words are WISE and PROPER which also relate to FORMAL.

also:

b : to serve as a motive or inspiration for

NOT free for all do as you please....does anyone understand the English language anymore?

JennC - yes ,I was serious.

familyfromvt - First of all I am from Hadley, MA which is less than an hour from VT. Not a booming metropolis, but a little town of mearly 2500 people when I grew up there. we wore jeans an flannel all the time ...except for church we dressed in dark suits and ties...We swam in the murky Connecticut river, but we dressed for a wedding or funeral.

so being a hick, or livin' in the mountains just don't cut it. I was raised to respect others as well as respected traditions.

Just cause someone paid for their vacation doesn't mean they can do what ever the hell they want.

I think your response is asinine and juvenile.

Dave
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Old January 22nd, 2006, 07:57 PM
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Bububr,

Oh I so agree with you, and No it seems very few people do actually understand written English anymore.
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Old January 23rd, 2006, 12:12 AM
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Bububr - you're funny and so easy to excite
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Old January 23rd, 2006, 08:48 AM
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Default familyfromvt...



Dave
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Old January 24th, 2006, 12:32 AM
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Dirty blue jeans aren't appropriate for wearing in public on ANY night, as far as I am concerned.

Some people just don't get it - others are looking for the loophole; still more are banking on the lines not enforcing the dress code - which remember is FORMAL.

Who could possibly think formal meant blue jeans - in any situation?

dorothy
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Old January 24th, 2006, 08:41 AM
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Until the cruise lines give the Maitre D the power to enforce the dress code in his restaurants, there will people who will try to push the envelope to see what they can get away with.
The majority of cruisers RESPECT the dress code and dresss accordingly out of respect for their fellow cruisers, crew, staff and their host(the cruise line)

FILL OUT YOUR COMMENT CARDS AT THE END OF YOUR CRUISE, THE CRUISE LINES READ THESE. Mention the fact that you were very disapointed that the cruise line allowed casually dressed people in the formal dining room on formal night
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Old January 24th, 2006, 10:05 AM
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I went to a vacation and Cruise expo this weekend. They had a fashion show, for whats hot in the Island and Cruise world. I was floored. When I got back up, I just couldn't keep my chin off the floor. Here was the skinny of it.

What the Chic stores are calling formal.

Dark pant suits for the ladies. Formal gowns, all full length. Nothing cocktail except one, and even the announcer had to blink. It was a peach mini dress. Strapless, with boning in the bust and waist to keep the thing up, tight to the waist, then wadded material. I think they are called gathers, but it was mid thigh.

The formals were bright colors, shimmery, satin like material that hugs the body. Low back lines, some with ties of Chiffon like material. Most halters had these. Also, the slight train is back. But...The kick, the skirts start at the knees, and end to floor in the back. Even the "womans" formal dress had a slit up the the thigh. It was tasteful though.

any sequins and beads were on casual shirts, and bathing suits, a few skirts. Nothing on the gowns. all plain.

So, even the cocktail dress wasn't stated in the fashion show. all gowns.
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Old January 24th, 2006, 03:41 PM
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Default Attention KMart Shoppers

When you sail with the mass market lines you will be sailing with mass market consumers.

Most of them are not comfortable wearing formal wear for one of two reasons. Either they never wear a suit at work and are not going to do so on vacation (proles) or they must wear a suit at work and are not going to do so on vacation (precariously middle class).
Few mass market cruisers ever wore a dinner jacket before their wedding and then they probably called it a "tux."

Enjoy the fact that those who do not how to act in public give us so much to talk about.
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Old January 24th, 2006, 08:17 PM
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In my frame of reference, there is no such thing as "class!" Neither wealth nor position has ever determined the true worth of a person.

Treat everyone as if they were your relatives, because, if you go far enough back in history, we are all relatives.
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Old January 24th, 2006, 10:24 PM
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Default Just wanted to share this

I just returned from a wake. My mechanics father died suddenly on Sunday. It snowed here in the Chicago area and he had a massive heart attack while he was shovelling his driveway. He was 72.

My mechanic is a nice guy...not very fashionable, but clean. we have invited him to a few gatherings at our home and he always looks clean and nice. I say this not to berate him, but to set the tone.

I arrived at the funeral home to find it filled with family, and friends.

For a moment I couldn't find him ...then there he was...Damn he cleans up good!

Although it was a sad occasion, I saw a lost man in a VERY nice suit that fit VERY well.

We talked I commented on his suit. ( by the way he IS NOT my type, and I am married)...He told me he had it for a few years and pulls it out once in a while for special occasions, but doesn't get to wear it often...

This man that changes my oil, rotate my tires, and puts break pads on my truck looked like something out of GQ.

This is my point: He said to me "Y'know Dave, I don't get to see a lot of these people much, and theres a lot who I don't know...Its important...ya know...Looking right for people who don't know ya...I mean its out of respect for my dad, but I want people to respect me too...I own the business, but I'm just a mechanic." or something close to that as much as I can remember..

I almost cried.

After fighting all day long with 'idiots' on these boards who don't give a sh*t about anyone else, let alone themselves....ON VACATION. Here was a man, distraught by the loss of his father, who dressed to the nines, because he felt it was respectful , not only to his father, but to himself, and those attending the wake...I was floored

Not that I didn't respect him, He is a really good friend of our ours, but I am used to him as friend first, mechanic second...I just never expected Movie Star looking third....or the IMPORTANCE of dressing the right way out of RESPECT.

Just wanted to share.

Dave
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Old January 25th, 2006, 01:55 AM
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I understand the formal thing. We always try to respect the formal night and it gives us great pictures that we would not normally take.

We do not have alot of money and I am not a giagantic girl but the butt is a little big and "cocktail" dresses just dont look good on a big butt, so the "pant suit" thing works better for me.

My husband wears the same sports jacket he did on our honeymoon cruise 10 years ago and it still looks good. So although we dont really adhear to the letter we do make an effort to look as nice as possible.

Why does looking nice have to cost so much. My folks pay for all of our cruises so we can vacation every couple of years which we truly appreciate but it also brings a little stress when it comes to dress up night.

Just sayin'
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Old January 25th, 2006, 08:55 AM
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Default JPJHOOPER

A couple of hints.

My sister is a big girl but not a BIG girl. The difference is I don't think she has a butt ( except maybe her husband).

She was an agent for a TA that escorted groups. She would go to Pennys outlet or end of season sales and buy a couple of the more conservative bridesmaid/formal dresses for dirt cheap, then have them altered at a local tailor...everyonce in a while she would them have them changed around/ styled differently so she could wear the same dress a dozen times and it looked differently for many of them.

Also Pennys ( once again ) has a really nice tuxedo ensemble for men that is only about $100.00. THey ARE lightweight wool and come in seperates so you can almost eliminate and alterations for him.

Hope that helps!


Dave
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Old January 25th, 2006, 10:50 AM
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Thanks Dave. Dont know if we will have enough time before this cruise (sat) but possibly for the next one.
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Old January 26th, 2006, 09:55 AM
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JP - i applaud you and your husband for making the effort. There is nothing wrong with a nice dressy pantsuit - jazz it up with a lacy camisole(lingere dept) or something with a bit of sparkle, a snazzy scarf, pin, dressy jewelery and heels, you are good to go. A nice dress sports jacket, dress shirt/tie, dress pants and dress shoes is fine for your husband.
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Old January 26th, 2006, 10:48 AM
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WOW!
We have our first cruise coming up and i'm almost afraid to go to dinner! :-)

We're not fancy people, more so comfort people. I often work 12 or 14 hours a day and comfort often wins out over style. You will NEVER see me in strappy sandals with a 3 inch heel for 2 reasons: 1) They're uncomfortable and 2) I'm 6 feet tall. The reason I don't buy a lot of the formal wear-type of things (and trust me, i've been on a quest ever since I booked this cruise) is that the "style", which I'm sure was chosen by men, is tight, low-cut, and as short of a skirt as you can get. And this rack is labeled "formal wear". I'm 30. I live in Chicago. I'm far from being a bum. But there's a thing called "tact" and a lot of these so-called formal wear places seem to forget that people over the prom-going age need formal wear too. At prom, the kids are fine with showing off any inch of skin they can. However, at a formal dinner, wedding, etc I don't want to sit next to a 50 year old woman and wondering if her boob is going to plop out on to her salad plate because her dress is cut down to her navel. It's tacky. So what do I plan on doing? I'm having a dress made (which isn't going to cost me any more than your average formal wear dress, believe it or not, as long as you buy the material yourself.)

As for my boyfriend, he jokes that the only time he wore a suit in his life was at his Baptism and the next time will be at his funeral. I told him we'd be holding his funeral at sea if he tried to show up in jeans to the formal night dinner. I have a bizarre sense of humor and he knows I'm kidding but he is also one of those guys who "cleans up real nice" and to me, it's fun to break from the norm of our busy lives (which is why we needed this vacation so badly in the first place). Two hours in a suit and tie isn't much to ask of anyone and hopefully the people who aren't willing to do this will order room service that night.
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Old January 26th, 2006, 11:15 AM
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Default good for you chosen175!

We Chicago people need to stick together!


Anyway, just FYI. There is a really nice mens outlet in Lincolnwood right off of Toughy. Its a big brick building next to the big purple hotel.

They have everything a guy could need at REALLY, REALLY great prices. The tux I'm buying, a Ralph Lauren is in the price range of $200.00. they also have some' no label ' tuxes from $89.00 which are just as nice! there are also some great prices on dark suits, shoes, shirts and accessories!

I just can't remember the name of the place, but the entry is around the back of the building in the parking lot.

I'm sure you guys will look fabulous!

I just wanted to give you a little info in case he needs to pick up a few things and didn't want to pay downtown prices.

Dave
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Old January 26th, 2006, 11:42 AM
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Ok chosen I'm still laughing about the boob in the salad plate. You sound like fun and I wish you were going on our cruise. I too work long hours at 2 different jobs which both require uniforms so suffice it to say the wardrobe is not very expansive.

We too clean up nice and do enjoy it, just pretend its like date night. I have never felt looked down upon in just the pantsuit thing or a nice dressy dress not neccessarily a "cocktail dress".

Just get dressed, dab on some make up, nice earrings and take a fantastic picture. Its the only time we get to take nice pics together
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Old January 26th, 2006, 01:03 PM
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Default JP....

I think thats called a "formal wear" malfunction....

Dave
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Old January 26th, 2006, 01:11 PM
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Old January 26th, 2006, 01:13 PM
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Default Formal Means Formal

ABoatNerd here.

A work friend alerted me to this post.

I concur that Formal means Formal. The "do what I want" is not acceptable to me and many others. The issue is accountability - it is the cruiselines accountability first, and the passenger, second, to adhere to the rules to ensure the product offering of the cruise line is delivered consistently. People have a better experience when they know what to expect.

I wish to speak to bubulor - I thank you for contributing the funeral example. Your example will remain with me forever - it has made an impression that is so generous, classy and high level. What a classy person to have been aware of his context in his grief. I hope you will give me your permission to use it in discussions in the future. It crystalizes the concept of "respect for context" which is completely lacking in an ever larger segment of the population.

Bubulor, not everyone conducts themselves in a selfish manner, but more and more people are utterly disrespectful. It is interesting that YOU ARE CONFORMING TO THE CRUISE LINES REQUEST and being attacked by the riffraff who are not conforming to the request of the line - remember, people love to rationalize away their behavior by attacking others - it is a self esteem issue generally. Of course, none of this would be an issue if the cruise lines enforced their policies.

The rush to the bottom of our western culture is the same as the rush to the bottom that inflicted the Roman Empire in the past. Nothing, nothing, will stop the decline - so bubulor, give it up my friend. Like the Kenny Rogers song, "know when to fold your cards"!

I now cruise only infrequently, most of my vacation $ is allocated to private resorts and golf resorts across the USA and Canada. On most golf courses there is a dress code and it is enforced. A few "public" lower end courses are permissive in their dressing -- but then I don't patronize them would I? We in fact, turn our noses up at them (yes we are snobs).

There are other vacation options where the service provider does a much better job providing a consistent product - the cruise lines in "rushing to the bottom to be all things to all people" - are gaining business from the increasingly "informal" crowd and driving away business from the "traditional" crowd - some lines like Oceania try to provide a product to bridge "informal" and "formal".

If class, formal dress, quiet decorum, good food and service are important, go to Crystal or try classy resorts - get away from the mass cruise lines - that includes Celebrity.

Cheers, ABoatNerd
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Old January 26th, 2006, 04:49 PM
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There is nothing like a wannabe.

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Old January 27th, 2006, 12:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul B
I prefer to look at the food on my plate rather than the clothes on the other diners. To each his own.
AMEN! So many angry people here.
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Old January 27th, 2006, 02:46 AM
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Ok HIGH SEAS I agree. But after reading this site I spent 2 1/2 hours at the mall looking for a dress that would cut the mustard. I found a fabulous dress, little shawl, bra, and something really uncomfortable that holds all of that in. Mission accomplished!

To the tune of 250.00ish on a credit card. Not sure if I will wear it knowing that I can return it (at Nordstroms) if it does not suit my liking once I get it home. You cant send a size 16 girl out to look for "cocktail" dresses because they are not out there unless I want to look like my grandmother with the nice dress and the giagantic coat thingy that buttons at the neck.

Oh my hell. I thought I was on vacation. Im not wearing jeans but jeeeezzz!
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Old January 27th, 2006, 11:26 AM
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First, it's hard not to look at the other diners when you're standing outside the door.

Dressing formal does not have to be a credit card burning event. I bought a new suit at Jos. P. Banks at a clearance sale for $100. It was originally $450 and they tailored it for no charge. Some kids spend this much on tennis shoes.

As Pamda always said, every lady should have the standard LBD (little black dress). Mrs. Thomas bought one on sale for $49 and still looks good in it. And do I care if she wears it two nights on our cruise..... heck no? I like the fact she dresses for the occasion and is being financially wise about it.

Regards,
Thomas
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Old January 27th, 2006, 11:38 AM
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the burning question for me is, 'What are the cruise lines so afraid of"? I mean they all offer casual alternatives if someone truly doesn't want to partake of formal nights, so what is stopping the Maitre D from tactfully taking someone aside at the door who is dressed in say jeans and a jersey and directing him/her to the casual dining venues?????????
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Formal and Semi Formal Nights on the Norway Christy Cruise Dress / Packing 2 March 1st, 2003 08:39 PM
kids/formal nights/how formal? carol Ask CruiseMates Staff 6 February 28th, 2002 07:43 PM


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