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  #31 (permalink)  
Old June 7th, 2006, 10:03 AM
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As i have said before since the VAST majority of passengers realize that Formal night is a cruise tradition and that they CHOOSE to cruise, and that they CHOOSE to dress accordingly for formal nights, the cruise lines won't change anything.
Formal nights are a long-standing cruising tradition, and unless there is a massive uprising against it, it will remain. The whole point of this thread, which has gotten a bit lost, was to suggest a very viable option. Nothing more nothing less.
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  #32 (permalink)  
Old June 7th, 2006, 01:51 PM
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Hear Hear Lisa And far from a mass uprising, the majority of cruisers like and respect the tradition and don't mind formal nights at all. If there is ever a market for cruises with no formal nights, believe me the industry will fill the gap. Fact is, there is no such demand.
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Old June 7th, 2006, 02:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aubie
I agree with Brewster. I would have suggested the same thing, but he beat me to it. I, too, am a Newbie. Hmmm, maybe it takes a Newbie to offer a fresh perspective...

At my country club there are two different dining rooms -- one is the Formal Dining Room where men must have suits and ties on and the women must be in a dress or nice suit and the other Grill Room where golfers or those who are dressed casually may dine. The service and the food are the same for both dining areas. What I find interesting is that even though they offer the formal option, most people opt to eat in the Grill Room even on Sunday after church when they are dressed nicely. I have never seen the Formal Dining Room overflowing with people; the most I ever see in there are a few older couples and the occasional family who is celebrating a special occasion. So, I think that maybe those who really enjoy the formal aspect of the cruises may be fewer than is reflected on this board. It seems to me that the country club crowd where I live is no different than the type of people that can afford a cruise.

What bothers me about requiring people to dress a certain way for the dining room is, from what I understand from reading posts, is that the service and the food are not comparable in other dining areas as one would get in the dining room. I am going on a RCI ship to Alaska and unless I'm reading the material wrong, there aren't that many other free or inclusive options on that particular ship. There are other nice restaraunts, but one has to pay extra to eat there. And frankly, I have not heard outstanding things about the food in any other inclusive dining area other than the dining room. Therefore, I think it's unfair to force people to eat at a buffet because they don't own formalwear. Regarless of the size of your stateroom, everyone still paid a good deal of money to take a cruise.
Welcome, Aubie.
I appreciate your point of view.
I have only sailed on RCI once, and on "formal" night the people at the next table to us wore shorts and T-shirts! It was about 50/50 on formal wear.
When I asked our waiter about it, he told me, "It's your vacation, do what you want."
We wore formal wear.
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  #34 (permalink)  
Old June 7th, 2006, 04:26 PM
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Default formal nights

I think one is enough, I don't know why they need two. One thing it would help were there no formal nights at all, would be the amount of clothing in the suitcase you would have to bring. This would be especially true for the heavy suits the men have to have, plus shoes, ties, shirts.
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  #35 (permalink)  
Old June 7th, 2006, 05:04 PM
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With one formal night, the cruiselines could stilll make their money by selling portraits and it sure would help with the amount of clothes that must be carried.

Comfort is better than a starched shirt!
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Old June 8th, 2006, 02:32 AM
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We just returned from a cruise on the Celebrity Infinity. In their Guest Behavior Policies (this is in all the cabins) Under article #9 it states:

Dress Code - Non-compliance:

'If guests do not comply with ship's dress code, as outlined in the ship's daily, especially during formal nights and elegant tea, the Maitre'd or Assistant Maitre'd reserves the right to ask the guest to comply with the suggested dress code. if guest continues to ignore the request, then Security will becontacted to ask the guest to leave the premises or comply with the dress code.'

In the Celebrity Daily it outlines the evening's dress code. For example on Monday, May 20th: Evening's Dress Code: Casual
Gentlemen: Sports shirt and slacks
Ladies: Dress, pant suit or sporty outfit.

When we booked the 12 night cruise to Alaska it was well outlined how many formal, informal and casual nights there would be. It really should not surprise us if the Cruise line chooses to enforce well established dress codes, since we are constantly reminded of them, before we cruise, in the ships daily newsletter, and in the dining area...the evenings dress code is posted with the menu. It's more of a surprise when they DON'T enforce it.

On this Alaskan cruise, everyone we saw dressed really nice...even on the casual dining nights. Even though we were in Alaska and most of us wore jeans, etc. during the day and on our excusions...passengers still dressed appropriately for dinner.

We did eat several times in the Alterative Casual Dining...and even there passengers dressed in very nice casual clothes...One or two did wear good jeans but never with a Tshirt...always with shirt, sometimes a jacket, sweater or blouse. But again, Alterative Casual Dining is NOT buffet style either. It is still...flowers on the table, linen table cloths, etc. Well...at least on the Celebrity Infinity it was.
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  #37 (permalink)  
Old June 8th, 2006, 03:34 PM
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That my friend.... "It's more of a surprise when they DON'T enforce it."

Is were it all goes wrong, some people turn up expecting it, it does not happen. Then they people pick on people for failing the rule.

If you are not going to enforce it remove the code from your "rules".

Okay not back tracking here, but if a ship is big enough that it has more than one formal dinning area (I don’t mean buffet). Then yes it may be acceptable to split them on formal nights.

But logistically I see big problems there in how many passengers will want to go to each and can we fit them all in?

I don’t think the ships want that dilemma
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  #38 (permalink)  
Old June 15th, 2006, 08:04 AM
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When choosing Celebrity I did so because of the fantastic crew, great service, nearby port and nice destinations. I don't mind eating in the buffet or casual dining if I don't want to dress formally on formal nights. What I did object to is the fact that the only place to get lobster tails or the good beef cuts was in the formal dining room. I feel those choices should also be offered in "casual" dining on formal nights.
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  #39 (permalink)  
Old June 15th, 2006, 08:30 PM
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Once again, I agree with popsec. (I think we might have been "separated at birth" ).

While we do enjoy formal nights, why not have the same "good" food available in the casual dining areas? We just might decide to eat in the buffet! Why should we be denied lobster or steak just because we don't want to "dress" for dinner??
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  #40 (permalink)  
Old June 15th, 2006, 11:24 PM
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Ah, Fern....we meet again
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  #41 (permalink)  
Old June 16th, 2006, 10:14 AM
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Fern & popsec may i play devil's advocate here?
What would be the point in having formal nights if it wasn't something extra special? Meals, ambiance, service etc, what would motivate some people to even bother getting all gussied up if they could get the exact same food at the casual restaurant????
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  #42 (permalink)  
Old June 16th, 2006, 12:05 PM
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Do you really think the lobster tails are the only thing that makes it worth hauling all the extra baggage for formal night? I don't even eat lobster but my husband and I do go to at least one of the formal nights.
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  #43 (permalink)  
Old June 16th, 2006, 12:32 PM
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Is it cynical of me to repeat my contention that one of the main reasons cruise lines have formal nights so that they can make money from taking all the portraits. Cruising, after all, is a business.

For many of us, the dining experience is the same whether the dress is casual (not dirty, smelly and full of fleas) or formal. We just lug all the extra stuff in our baggage because we like the formal night menu.

I would be more than pleased if I never had to wear a coat and tie again on a cruise ship. I am not offended if the people sitting across from me are dressed casually on formal night. I do feel sorry for those whose evening would be ruined were that the case.

Live and let live and you will live longer!
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  #44 (permalink)  
Old June 16th, 2006, 01:38 PM
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With all due respect Paul B, I don't think taking pictures is the main motivation for formal nights. They can find plenty of excuses to make money taking our pictures without them.

I repeat, if there is ever a demand to eliminate formal nights, they will be eliminated. There is no such demand. Most cruisers want them and expect them and enjoy them. That's why they are there. The market determines whether or not there are formal nights.
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Old June 16th, 2006, 04:25 PM
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But what if my formal wear is dirty, smelly and full of fleas?
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Old June 16th, 2006, 09:47 PM
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Hi LisaK,

Quote:
Fern & popsec may i play devil's advocate here?
What would be the point in having formal nights if it wasn't something extra special? Meals, ambiance, service etc, what would motivate some people to even bother getting all gussied up if they could get the exact same food at the casual restaurant????
Yes, you may play devil's advocate! We (and I think I'm including popsec) enjoy dressing for dinner. I was just wondering why people who didn't want to "dress" for dinner should be excluded from "the good food".

(BTW, I love lobster, but the "lobster" on the ships we've been on have been very sorry .)
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Old June 16th, 2006, 10:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fern
Hi LisaK,
Yes, you may play devil's advocate! We (and I think I'm including popsec) enjoy dressing for dinner. I was just wondering why people who didn't want to "dress" for dinner should be excluded from "the good food".

.)[/quote]

Since it appears that we think alot alike, Fern, go ahead and respond for me also
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Old June 16th, 2006, 10:10 PM
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Hey popsec,

Jump on in and agree or disagree with me! I'm "easy"! I just posted that because we DO agree on so many things! That doesn't mean we can't agree to disagree, just because we were "separated at birth" ! I enjoy your opinions! Respond away!

We'd love to cruise with you and your DH someday!
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Old June 16th, 2006, 10:16 PM
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Well, gee, Fern.....we're looking for "friends" to get in on the "friends and family" military discount on the Sept 25th Legend sailing out of NY
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Old June 16th, 2006, 11:30 PM
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Popsec, Fern, et al, there are some pratical considerations that prevent certain foods being on the buffet line....Lobster for instance, would get rubbery and unpleasent if left out on a steam table for any ammount of time and steak would rapidly overcook and turn to cardboard....there is also an issue of portion control....Lobster, (even the warm-water variety served on cruises) are relatively expensive and having a pile out for people to take as many as they would want could become an expensive proposition

No, some foods just need the personal preperation, plating and service one gets tableside I am afraid to enjoy them you will just have dress up like the rest of us
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Old June 17th, 2006, 12:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pesto Man
Popsec, Fern, et al, there are some pratical considerations that prevent certain foods being on the buffet line....Lobster for instance, would get rubbery and unpleasent if left out on a steam table for any ammount of time and steak would rapidly overcook and turn to cardboard....there is also an issue of portion control....Lobster, (even the warm-water variety served on cruises) are relatively expensive and having a pile out for people to take as many as they would want could become an expensive proposition

No, some foods just need the personal preperation, plating and service one gets tableside I am afraid to enjoy them you will just have dress up like the rest of us
I wasn't talking about the buffet line, I was speaking of "casual dining" with waiter service, tableclothes and all but still no lobster or good beef dishes.....
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Old June 17th, 2006, 08:24 PM
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Pesto Man wrote:

Quote:
Lobster, (even the warm-water variety served on cruises) are relatively expensive and having a pile out for people to take as many as they would want could become an expensive proposition
Unfortunately, I've found the lobster in the dining room to be "rubbery" It's still one of my favorites, but it's not cooked as you order it!

If there were a "pile" of lobster on the buffet, I'd just pull up my chair and eat right there !

Hi popsec,

Sorry, with a cruise booked for November, don't think we'll make the September cruise! Maybe next year .

Surprisingly , I agree with you about a casual dining area with the same menu as the dining room!

We still enjoy dressing up, but someday we may change our minds. It would be nice to have a choice (besides booking NCL).
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  #53 (permalink)  
Old June 19th, 2006, 12:14 PM
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Default Solution to formal night dilemma

We only cruise occasionally as there seem to be SO many travel opportunities to choose from. But we're travelling on HAL again in the late fall. I see from their website the following information regarding dinner dining in their Lido restaurants:

"Made-to-order dinner entrées and tableside waiter service for dinner"

I think that's a nice middle ground for those who don't want to go the formal route.

I think it's probably not feasible to leave "dress code" up to individual interpretation. It's like the "no shoes, no shirt..." Who gets to decide what's alright? Most would likely say "well, yeah, you obviously have to wear shoes and a shirt," but why is that obvious? So the cruise lines ARE arbitrary but doesn't even McDonalds have certain minimum standards

I also should throw in that I had 12 years of Catholic schools so arbitrary dress codes don't cause me any loss of sleep - haha.
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Old June 22nd, 2006, 07:45 PM
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I totally agree -- don't relegate me to the buffet just because I don't wish to dress for the prom. Dress for the evening is suggested, not mandated, and many of the people tuxed and spangled up look nothing but ridiculous. I also agree that classic and classy resort casual attire is appropriate for nearly any cruise ship. Now if we were sailing the Queen Mary back in l952, that would have been a different story. Different time, different lifestyles, you get the idea.

I'll be in the dining room on formal night, but not in formal attire. Not in shorts and collarless tee shirt, either, but not in formal attire.



Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidBgood
Ha ha ha

Okay, hey you got me going (is that a song title).

Me... I'm happy in a tux, formal suit or just casual if the mood suits me.

But I will not be dictated too as that attire was MY choice. I am still the same person in all those attires. I take part..so dont kick me to hard.

I only know that I have met some wonderful, caring, interesting individuals in my 30 years of cruising that could turn up buck naked if they like, and as long as we can chat and laugh during dinner. Welcome

Whats happening here is not that individual, people thing, but a bunch of folks that will acccept the biggest A'hole in the world to their table.......Why as people or individuals you are ok with us because you had a tux on So its ace for them, they must be nice people

You go cruising as many times as Paul B and I, and you tend to find its the words that come out of peoples mouths that make the cruise and your table for dinning, not the fact of how they dress up.

Yes,, have the formal nights, but get away from you cannot eat with us because you "aint in the right gear mate".

Cruising is about the people you meet, not how you dress.

Talk to people as I have done, you meet and make some really good friends.

Life and the people you like are bigger than that
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Old June 22nd, 2006, 07:54 PM
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35cruzes, even on fairly formal lines like HAL only about 20 or 30% wear tuxes these days. The rest wear business suits. Coats and ties.
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Old June 23rd, 2006, 12:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidBgood
Ha ha ha

I only know that I have met some wonderful, caring, interesting individuals in my 30 years of cruising that could turn up buck naked if they like, and as long as we can chat and laugh during dinner. Welcome

You go cruising as many times as Paul B and I, and you tend to find its the words that come out of peoples mouths that make the cruise and your table for dinning, not the fact of how they dress up.

Yes,, have the formal nights, but get away from you cannot eat with us because you "aint in the right gear mate".

Cruising is about the people you meet, not how you dress.
"I totally agree -- don't relegate me to the buffet just because I don't wish to dress for the prom. Dress for the evening is suggested, not mandated, and many of the people tuxed and spangled up look nothing but ridiculous." 35kruzes


Yes, in an ideal world the above would be true...but we do NOT live in an ideal world, with perfect circumstances and people. We meet people and within seconds start to size them up. It's NOT judging people...its human nature. You're deciding what you have in common...who you mutually know...family, friends, job, etc. in order to build a friendship, or even a passing relationship. How we dress speaks volumes about how we relate and perceive the world around us. It's a fact, it's life...it's human nature!

People DO come to certain conclusions by how you dress, and then you re-inforce those impressions...good or bad by how you act.

BTW: Cruise dress attire is mandated, and is not just suggested. By following or NOT following the dress code of the cruises line, we are broadcasting to other passengers something about ourselves before they even personally meet us.

To say that "many of the people tuxed and spangled up look nothing but ridiculous"...is to JUDGE THEM by what they wear! The very same thing you accuse them of doing to do to you!

See how easy it is??? We ALL do it!
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Old June 23rd, 2006, 05:11 PM
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Fieldmouse, I would think the same thing about someone who was wearing a tux versus wearing a nice sports shirt. In fact, if I were wearing a suit at the time, I would wish that I hadn't worn something so uncomfortable.

Also, as far as I am concerned, there is a ton of difference in meaning between the words "suggested" and "required".

Again, I say, Live and let live and you will live longer.
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Old June 23rd, 2006, 08:00 PM
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Here's a quote from HAL's web site:

"On festive formal evenings, women usually wear cocktail dresses or gowns and men usually wear business suits or tuxedos. There are approximately two formal nights per week. (Gentlemen: Although business suits or tuxedos are suggested attire for formal evenings, they are certainly not required. You are welcome to wear a jacket and tie on formal nights.) "

So "formal" only suggests tuxedo or business suit which seems to be more flexible than in the past. But it's also pretty clear that a jacket and tie is the least casual that's acceptable.

As a little aside, I was listening to an interview on NPR a couple of months ago. I don't remember who they were interviewing or what the subject was but the interviewee said "You can never reason someone out of their passion." So basically if someone is passionate about not dressing up for formal nights, there's nothing that's going to convince them otherwise. I haven't read these boards in probably six months, but then and now I've never seen either side budge on this issue. We all clearly have too much time on our hands that it continues to stay a hot topic
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Old June 23rd, 2006, 08:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CLO
Here's a quote from HAL's web site:

"On festive formal evenings, women usually wear cocktail dresses or gowns and men usually wear business suits or tuxedos. There are approximately two formal nights per week. (Gentlemen: Although business suits or tuxedos are suggested attire for formal evenings, they are certainly not required. You are welcome to wear a jacket and tie on formal nights.) "

So "formal" only suggests tuxedo or business suit which seems to be more flexible than in the past. But it's also pretty clear that a jacket and tie is the least casual that's acceptable.

As a little aside, I was listening to an interview on NPR a couple of months ago. I don't remember who they were interviewing or what the subject was but the interviewee said "You can never reason someone out of their passion." So basically if someone is passionate about not dressing up for formal nights, there's nothing that's going to convince them otherwise. I haven't read these boards in probably six months, but then and now I've never seen either side budge on this issue. We all clearly have too much time on our hands that it continues to stay a hot topic

Ah, yes, but here you are reading this thread and commenting on the subject.
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Old June 23rd, 2006, 08:49 PM
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Ain't it the truth?!? Wish I could blame the blazing heat here but it only started today. Maybe I should clean my toilets instead - teehee.
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