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Old June 17th, 2006, 10:32 AM
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Default Why aren't the cruise lines building smaller ships?

I am not a fan of today’s big super mega cruise ships. My wife started cruising back in 1995 and loved the size of the ships that were sailing back then. Traveling in ships between fifty and eighty thousand tons was great. You had the opportunity to bump into friends and talk to the ships staff. Today theses mega ships are like going to the mall on a rainy Saturday. They are jammed pack full of people pushing and shoving. Getting on and off during island stops in like trying to get through a busy check out at the supermarket. My wife and I traveled on the MS. Mercury back in 2003 and loved her. It was a January cruise and the ship was perhaps sixty percent full. We met a lot of nice people and got to know them pretty well. If I could compare my cruise on the Explorer of the Seas I would say it was like a 24 hour party cattle car. All I saw was a lot of drunken teens running all over and playing on the elevators. Also I am not into skating, rock climbing and wave jumping. They seem like a good idea but it's not for me. I just want comfort, peace, good conversation and food when I travel. Where can I find it?
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Old June 17th, 2006, 11:30 AM
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you can find what you are looking for on almost any cruise line by looking for their "older" ships (that being a relative term these days) and probably at a great rate if you or your travel agent, do your homework !!

I agree with you about the mega ships, I try to avoid them as much as possible because the older I get, the less I like crowds (and that's funny considering when I was 18 I was at Woodstock !!!)..however, I am very close to succumbing and going on the Freedom of the Seas next May when it is being chartered to the Tom Joyner Foundation..

I've been cruising since 1976 and my still all time favorite was on Carnival's Mardi Gras which if it were still cruising today would be considered "antique"
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Old June 17th, 2006, 01:18 PM
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MONEY!!! they make more money on the big ships .

We prefer the smaller ships of around 700 pax or less maybe even 1200 Pax but we are now avoiding the mega ships.
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Old June 17th, 2006, 03:04 PM
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Kitty when I traveled on the Explorer of the Seas, waking through the promenade deck was like walking through Grand Central Station during rush hour.
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Old June 17th, 2006, 04:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stac2006
Kitty when I traveled on the Explorer of the Seas, waking through the promenade deck was like walking through Grand Central Station during rush hour.
yes some of them are way too big... and trying to get off in soem ports of call is another problem.
I will stick to the smaller line ...they may cost a bit more but worth every penny to me!
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Old June 18th, 2006, 07:16 PM
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I agree, we prefer the smaller ships, but there just aren't a big enough selection anymore unless you want to pay an absolute premium. We thought the Brillance of the seas was big, but I guess that is becoming one of the "smaller" ships in todays world.
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Old June 18th, 2006, 10:00 PM
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I agree, too! I've been cruising since 1982 and as much as I love it, I really don't care for the "bigger is better" theory!

I'm so thrilled Princess is adding another R class ship, which will be in the Med for 2007. I think it will be great to be on a ship that has 700 instead of thousands of passengers! :-)

There still is a market for small to medium ships, I think.
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Old June 19th, 2006, 09:49 AM
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i think the "smaller" ships will always be around, they will need them for the Panama canal. but we love the voyager class ships. for us they are more stable, less vibration, more to do and see, and more places to find that quiet spot. we are also looking forward to try the freedom class ships some day soon. as for the 220,000 ton Project Genesis due in 2009, we will keep a open mind
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Old June 19th, 2006, 11:33 AM
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its all about supply and demand, "if you build it they will come"
More families are crusing now than ever and that means more "stuff and things" to do.
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Old June 29th, 2006, 02:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stac2006
Kitty when I traveled on the Explorer of the Seas, waking through the promenade deck was like walking through Grand Central Station during rush hour.
sounds like my Mariner of the Seas cruise last fall! same problem by the pools on sea days. Apparently no one was interested in ice skating or rock climbing or minature golf! I wasn't either myself! but that taught me a lesson why go on a ship that has a bunch of extras I am NOT interested in doing. If you are a "veg by the Pool" type person-you do better to pick a ships that has nice big pools.

I also like the smaller, older ships-except for the fact they don't have balconies unless you book an expensive suite.
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Old July 4th, 2006, 11:23 AM
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Default Smaller Ships

I have been on all sizes of ships - and I love them all!

If bigger ships must be built in order to keep the prices reasonable - I say do it!.

Although some may not enjoy the feeling of being on a huge cruise ship with thousands of people - all I know is that in real dollars - cruises of today are about half the cost of what they were fifteen years ago.

For those who enjoy the intimacy of a smaller ship - there are cruises that cater to that clientele - ships that carry no more than a few hundred passengers.

Bon Voyage!
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Old September 10th, 2006, 05:04 PM
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Default Smaller Ships

The smallest ship i've been on was the NCL Wind at around 50,000GRT. The best thing about a ship of this size was that everything was in short walking distance from my cabin. In fact, it is the only ship i've been on that I used the stairs more often than the elevators. But the lido buffet was always packed and it took me awhile to find an empty table. I've seen this same problem on ships twice it's size.
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Old October 19th, 2006, 01:00 PM
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One more thing in favor of smaller ships. They can enter ports where the large ones dare not go.

Barb
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Old October 19th, 2006, 02:53 PM
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I like the small to medium sized ships. Seven Seas Mariner at 49,000 GRT and 700 pax is my perfect size although I have liked Seven Seas Navigator at around 30,000 GRT and 490 pax and Seven Seas Voyager at 42,000 GRT and 700 pax. I miss Radisson Diamond. I think she was just a little over 20,000 GRT and 320 pax.

Of course, we are all talking about GRT which really doesn't indicated the mass or weight of the ship; just the enclosed portions of the ship. It is an inexact guide to how much space there is per passenger.
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Old October 19th, 2006, 04:57 PM
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Smallest ship I was ever on was 29,000 ton and made in Scotland on the Clyde in 1957. It was my first cruise, and has a special place in heart.

What you have to remember is that what some see as cruising with a choice ie do I go Costa, RCCL, P&O, Celebrity, Princess etc.

They are all owned by Carnival, so they are bulk market with a company board directed towards bulk.

So unless you go to the smaller independants, you will never see smaller ships from these guys unless it's in response to a niche in the market, then its expensive and specialist.
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Old October 19th, 2006, 08:58 PM
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RCC's Navigator& Mariner OTS are as big a ship that I care to cruise on. I now plan my cruises so I won't be in port with RCC's Freedom OTS (too big-too many people)as some of caribbean ports are becoming over crowded as it is. I can't fathem the thought of being on a ship w/4000+ people. Seems that the quality of service,food,etc. would decline.
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Old December 7th, 2006, 01:49 PM
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There clearly is a demand for smaller ships, as evidenced by the responses here. Like many who posted above about 50,000GT and 700 pax is about the max for me. We've cruised so much that rather than go through the lines and crowds a bigger ship involves, we'd just rather stay home.

Problem is, no matter how large they build a ship, it seems to have only ONE reception desk, excursion desk, and entry/exit point. Ive seen lines waiting to re-board a mega ship at a port stretching for blocks. The heck with that.

Silverseas and Seabourn are both planning new ships. Details have not been released, but both have announced that 500 pax is about the most that can be accomodated on a ship that gives a true luxury experience. I'd take that one further, and say that generally around 1500 pax is the most that can be accomodated on a ship that gives a DECENT experience.

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Old December 7th, 2006, 02:45 PM
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I have to agree Richard, the big ships are what they are and offer things like bowling alleys, ice rinks, shopping malls etc. But sometimes I feel that is all they are.... a floating shopping mall that you can sleep on with bars and shops and you being on it... no-one ever meets anyone, its like a shopping mall very impersonal.

Smaller and more intimate, then you meet and greet people that you see around you everday. It is like strangers brought together in a one off experience for that cruise. That was and is cruising for me and you will never get that on the big bulk guys, and thats sad
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Old December 7th, 2006, 03:28 PM
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When I was a MUCH younger man, I might have enjoyed the additional activities on the mega ships. I might have been a bit bored by the "laid back" atmosphere on the small ships, as on my last cruise on Silverseas' Silver Cloud last Sept. Very destination-oriented and understated elegant onboard. But I NEVER could have tolerated those LINES and CROWDS as on the megas. The huge ships really need to be dived up somehow, with multiple reception and excursion desks, and many more entrance/exit points.

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Old December 7th, 2006, 04:20 PM
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Having been on 'big' ships (not mega!) and then some of the smaller...my husband and I have now found we prefer the smaller type.

Shorter lines, better and faster service from crew and staff. Easy tendering...and the list could go on

Mega ships mean more passengers to impact the Port you're in...

Any excursion becomes labor intensive when you are being hustled, pushed and shoved as each passenger races to get THEIR space or seat in the tender line, buffet line, theatre line, spa line...coffee and tea line and heaven forbid you cut anyone off from the desert line!
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Old December 8th, 2006, 02:47 PM
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I so agree with you both on all, for example the first time we hit Croatia, docking in Dubrovnik, We were on a small ship and the only one to dock that day, and we had a very memorable stop at that port. Loved it.

This year, because as a port it is now been seen as "got to be there" then the day we arrived there were TEN ships from various lines dumping people. The experience was so bad, not because of the place, but because the lines dumped at least 20,000 people at the same time in this relatively small place.

So, who is going to enjoy that experience and the same must go on for week after week on the Carib cruise circuit, small place, it could be special for our passengers, but no we will dump 20,000+ in there at the same time

Why dont they as lines talk to each other and sort out docking days and itenaries that would reduce the congestion and at the same time increase the experience for the passenger.

If anything, that is the key when I'm asked how has "cruising changed" and what that means to me.

They are so busy fighting off each other to get you on board, that they actually forget that being in these places maybe a "special" experience for some that paid their money, but to them you are just butts in bunk in other words steerage. They dont care about your on shore experience, as for them there is no profit margin in you going off ship, sad and basic but true, sooner you come back on board, then can start to make money with you again. So they dont care about the ports, they are just an inconvience in their eyes.

Thats why you dont get a lot of time there, the sooner they are back at sea the better for them. Thats today's crusing reality on some lines
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Old December 13th, 2006, 03:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stac2006
Kitty when I traveled on the Explorer of the Seas, waking through the promenade deck was like walking through Grand Central Station during rush hour.
My feeling about Mariner of the Seas. that promenade area was wall to wall people every evening. You could not move without bumping into someone.

I have no desire to go back on a voyager class ship and as far as that Freedom of the Seas you could not PAY me to go on that!
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Old February 23rd, 2007, 12:00 AM
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We've sailed big ships (Explorer and Adventure), middle-size ships (Summit and Jewel) and smaller ships (Galaxy and Mercury) and have loved them all. Our TA set us up with our first cruise on Explorer and when we agreed to go with our friends on Summit to AK we wondered if we would like a smaller ship--we do! But if a large ship fit our needs again, we would book it.
Of those ships and cruises, the absolute best one was Jewel in every category. We chose it over Connie because of the itin. We chose Galaxy to the PC over Brilliance because of the price. We chose Mercury over the RCCL MR ship for itin and price. We chose Mercury again for Aust/NZ for the Celebrity line. When we do the Med it will be on Galaxy for the itin and the land tour.
There are lots of choices and it's fun researching and deciding. I'm already thinking past next year. Our TA, a relative, is always great with booking and service.

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Old March 23rd, 2007, 03:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidBgood
What you have to remember is that what some see as cruising with a choice ie do I go Costa, RCCL, P&O, Celebrity, Princess etc.

They are all owned by Carnival, so they are bulk market with a company board directed towards bulk.
Just a quibble. Celebrity is owned by RCCL and P & O and Princess are owned by Carnival, but RCCL and Celebrity are not owned by Carnival. They are mortal enemies. That said, your point stands. They are both major corporations with their eyes on the money and the mass market crowd, so, with minor deviations, they offer the same sort of mass market product.

Interestingly, though, I think the RCCL vs. Carnival corporate battle is the main reason for the continuing upward spiral in mega ship size. Each is trying to outdo the next. I'm glad the mega ships are there, as there are many people who love them, but I would love to see some new ships, smaller than the current megaships, but with the same sorts of technical advancements and activities.
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Old March 23rd, 2007, 04:29 PM
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Ahh, you nit pick my opinion as if it were real. Well it was at one time in my head, age is a terrible handicap regarding memory and facts.

On here its me just having a laugh and I may get some "stats" wrong,,,hey ho.

Please tell me you are not one those "cruise geeks" that knows who sold what to when and how they changed the wallpaper when they took over

Me.... don’t care regarding the owners, as they all blur regarding ship and experience on bulk lines.

So I will give up quoting "history" and go on to talk about the repercussions of what their "marriages" actually meant to the cruising public…today.

Lets discuss that
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Old April 1st, 2007, 06:13 PM
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I may be weird, but to me, the definition of a "small ship" is one with fewer than 500 guests max double occupancy. These are actually my preference. My next cruise (if you can call it that) will likely be on a chartered catamaran in the Caribbean that has a max occupancy of SIX guests! Now even I may find that a bit small -- we'll see.

But you can imagine how I feel in light of my preference for ships of 500 guests or less, when I know that NO LINE has any plans to build any ships in this category. So when the existing small number of these ships has to be retired due to old age, my favorite category of cruising in terms of ship size will be forever gone.
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Old May 15th, 2007, 10:06 PM
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My first cruise was onboard the Carnival Mardi Gras, their very first ship formally known as the Empress of Canada, and she weighed in at an impressive 27,250 GRT. Pretty small by today's standards but hey, my first cruise was in 1982 and Carnival was 10 years old at the time with only 4 cruise ships with the largest at 30,000 GRT. That was the Tropicale and she is still sailing today with Costa cruise lines as the Costa Tropicale.

Now 30,000 GRT won't hardly get you a good lifeboat on one of these behemoths.

My last cruise was on the Carnival Legend weighing in at 88,500 GRT and carrying 2,124 passengers. Now in my opinion this is a perfect sized ship, not too big, not too small.

Why no more small newbuilds, I think it's a little of money and a little of demand. The demand is there for the big stuff and, everybody wants to sail on the biggest! Money, heck the cruise lines make more sailing a big ship with lots more paying passengers.

My 2 cents worth,

Bill 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8)
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Old May 16th, 2007, 02:05 PM
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One of my early cruises was on the Carnivale. While I do like the older, smaller ships, that was so bad that I refused to go on Carnival for years because of it. Cabins so tiny that if one person went to the bathroom, the other had to climb on top of the bed so the door could be opened. And paper thin walls. That said, I agree that about 2000 passengers is pretty much my ideal now, though I prefer the 1400, like the old Carnival Jubilee. But, any cruise ship is a good place to be for me!
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Old May 16th, 2007, 02:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by colorcrazie
One of my early cruises was on the Carnivale. While I do like the older, smaller ships, that was so bad that I refused to go on Carnival for years because of it. Cabins so tiny that if one person went to the bathroom, the other had to climb on top of the bed so the door could be opened. And paper thin walls. That said, I agree that about 2000 passengers is pretty much my ideal now, though I prefer the 1400, like the old Carnival Jubilee. But, any cruise ship is a good place to be for me!
Marty
This is too funny Marty, I forgot the size thing back in the good old days! 8)

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Old May 18th, 2007, 02:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nvabill
My first cruise was onboard the Carnival Mardi Gras, their very first ship formally known as the Empress of Canada, and she weighed in at an impressive 27,250 GRT. Pretty small by today's standards but hey, my first cruise was in 1982 and Carnival was 10 years old at the time with only 4 cruise ships with the largest at 30,000 GRT. That was the Tropicale and she is still sailing today with Costa cruise lines as the Costa Tropicale.

Now 30,000 GRT won't hardly get you a good lifeboat on one of these behemoths.

My last cruise was on the Carnival Legend weighing in at 88,500 GRT and carrying 2,124 passengers. Now in my opinion this is a perfect sized ship, not too big, not too small.

Why no more small newbuilds, I think it's a little of money and a little of demand. The demand is there for the big stuff and, everybody wants to sail on the biggest! Money, heck the cruise lines make more sailing a big ship with lots more paying passengers.

My 2 cents worth,

Bill 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8)
I agree actually Bill, the smaller the ship then the higher the premium you have to pay to be on it today. But only if we are talking "quality lines", as there are a lot of small ships out here that must just meet safety standards in the unknown unproven cruise line/ship market, ie old second hand stuff in third world countries. and even some areas of Europe

But like you, in some ways my "special" never forgotten cruise was on something that came in at around 29 thousand ton. That was the ship that gave me the bug for this lark.

Around 90k ton, that’s big enough and at the same time small enough to feel the intimacy we used to get on the small guys.... without the discomfort:
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