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-   -   Whining Americans! (http://www.cruisemates.com/forum/travel-gripes/317493-whining-americans.html)

Texasmunk July 20th, 2006 08:03 AM

Whining Americans!
 
Let's see, US government warns folks...hey, that place is dangerous

Let's see, these folks all bought tickets to get there

Let's see, a 1954 US LAW requires people evacuated from a dangerous area to PAY $150 to get a ride out.

Let's see, the US does not have 500 cruise ships positioned around the world waiting to evacuate people.

So, ,what do we hear when they get a FREE ride out?

Complaints!!!!!!!

Very sad situation in the Middle East and all folks can whine about is a slow FREE evacuation!!!!!

DougR. July 20th, 2006 08:23 AM

Unless you have been in such a crisis situation it is sometimes tough to sympathize but I would hardly call it whining. The US response has, as usual, been very poor. I draw on my 9/11 experience in NY when we were waiting for a ferry to NJ which was the only way out of Manhattan that day. You are scared, you do not know what is happening next and all you can think of is getting out. Minutes seem like hours and you are praying that nothing more happens. From my experience in the invasion of Panama in 1989 I can tell you even those of us who knew what was happening got a little jumpy when the bombs and bullets started flying. I can only imagine how those who had no idea what was coming felt. The 1954 law aside, charging scared evacuees is nothing more than extortion.

Fruitcake July 20th, 2006 01:34 PM

I just think there is no proper dress rehearsal for these incidents.

And even if there is -- such as a muster drill on a cruise ship -- I have to think if something serious happened, panic would ensue.

JeanS July 21st, 2006 06:37 AM

Well, I think the US certainly dropped the ball to help the victims of Katrina. I cannot imagine having to live in those horrible conditions while in the richest country of the world.

At the same time, I cannot sympathize with those who insisting on staying after the mayor stated "This is the storm we've all feared". Although I know some people did not have the means to leave, it would have been nice if they loaded up a bunch of buses and got those people the heck out of there! And why didn't they open up the freeway in the opposite direction for people to leave?? Certainly no one was coming IN to town!

Fruitcake July 21st, 2006 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeanS
Well, I think the US certainly dropped the ball to help the victims of Katrina. I cannot imagine having to live in those horrible conditions while in the richest country of the world.

At the same time, I cannot sympathize with those who insisting on staying after the mayor stated "This is the storm we've all feared". Although I know some people did not have the means to leave, it would have been nice if they loaded up a bunch of buses and got those people the heck out of there! And why didn't they open up the freeway in the opposite direction for people to leave?? Certainly no one was coming IN to town!

I agree about the US dropping the ball post-Katrina. Many things that were supposed to be in place were not.
It was chaotic.

There were so may people living in such poor circumstances ... and after the storm wreaked its havoc, they were left without homes to return to.

I can see the same thing happening to us in South Florida.
There are many people in inadequate housing ... people who may not be able to get out of town if a Cat 4 or 5 were bearing down on us.
These people might make it to a local shelter, but would possibly not have anything to return to.

Even with our highways all changed to go north, they would be clogged with people. There are only 2 major highways leading out of this area.

Having lived through 3 hurricanes in the last two years, I've seen how terrible the aftermath is in terms of survival and basic necessities. And our storms weren't anywhere near a Cat 4 or 5.

DavidBgood July 21st, 2006 04:28 PM

Okay whining Americans and Brits I can just about accept. BUT, it depends on the WHINE.

I don’t like people that whine, when they never thought about the scenario in the first place, I don’t agree with them normally....but accept this one in a twisted sort of way.

And I mean this with great respect to my Continental American friends...but it’s due to your "internal" news coverage. Either on the TV or what is presented to you daily in newspaper coverage of the world as you see it. You don’t.......see it…and that is rest of us.

Because.....?

Some folks state side unless GWB has declared that War has broken out and troops have been sent to sort it out and to preserve something.

Would not actually care from day to day, or realise that they could be vacationing in another part of the world that is a potential "Hot Spot" as....NO ONE TOLD THEM, either from internal TV or the Government or the Newspaper coverage of thingsthat those papers seen as important in the world for their readers.

Ignorant Brits are just that and from our education system and TV and Newspaper coverage then should know better regarding the wider world and what is safe.

Fruitcake July 21st, 2006 04:50 PM

I think the information is there for the taking ... but many people are ignorant and don't bother checking.

Others say they'll take the chance.

JeanS July 21st, 2006 06:08 PM

Texas,

How about walking in their shoes....easy to talk about people when you are sitting in your comfortable house without the threat of bombs falling around you....

rescuedad July 21st, 2006 06:26 PM

Here's a thought. Stay in your own country. where you belong. Unless you are forced to travel to or work in another country I don't want to hear about it!!

hazelson July 21st, 2006 06:40 PM

You can add "carping Canadians" to the list. Why do they expect the government to get them out - they got themselves in?

Watching the politicians blaming each other is really funny though. Especially the "old" government blaming the "new" government (who are actually following the policies set down my the "old" government) - like kids on the school playground.

Then people are upset because they can't get telephone calls through - again - blame the government - not the buggers exploding things.

There - I've ranted - I feel much better - eh!!!

TTFN Jennifer

Texasmunk July 22nd, 2006 11:11 AM

JeansS
 
Gee, does STATE DEPATMENT WARNING meaning anything to you???

Gee, does Hamas takes hostage mean anything to you?

Gee, does Hezbollah takes hostages mean anything to you?

These folks had ample warning!!!!

They had the means to get into the country, did they buy one way tickets??? They had time to leave.

It would appear that the phrase "Personal Responsibility" might apply.

Any effort to bring Katrina into the mix is pure politics. School Bus Nagen gets a pass? The governor refusing to call for Federal aid until AFTER the
levees broke gets a pass? The weather forecasts for three days prior meant nothing?

Now they will probably demand frequent flyer miles!!!

jennc July 22nd, 2006 08:28 PM

One theory in todays local newspaper's letters to the editor is that many of the so called tourists are actually living in Lebanon and holding Canadian Passports. How else would you explain 30,000 "tourists" in this small part of the world at one time?
I'm not agreeing with it or disagreeing with it but I thought it was an intersting take on the subject.

hazelson July 24th, 2006 01:00 AM

Our illustrious leader - Stephen Harper - even picked up some of our earstwhile travellers in his own plane and brought them home - nice ride at taxpayers (read mine!) expense. One women complained about her evacuation aboard ship - out of Lebanon. She was upset because people were "vomiting". Duh - it was a ship - at sea. Even on chushy cruise ships people vomit. She said it was so bad (she lacked a generous supply of food and drink) she wished she was back under the streets of Lebanon with the bombs. Maybe they could drop her off on their next trip back to pick up those that want to leave. I get so mad!!!!

Texasmunk - I don't think "personal responsibilty" even exists anymore. Maybe they need to start teaching it in school. Imagine a person actually being repsonsible for themselves and/or family. Interesting concept - though I doubt it will catch on. The lawyers would get upset at the very thought lol.

TTFN Jennifer

DavidBgood July 28th, 2006 03:47 PM

Thats a brilliant quote rescuedad

"Here's a thought. Stay in your own country. where you belong. Unless you are forced to travel to or work in another country I don't want to hear about it!!"

So if people not so long ago had taken that advice, would you be in Florida today? Would the USA be only inhabited by the Native Americans?

Yeah you stick with short memory and "I don't want to hear about it!!"

:shock:

gambitscuba July 30th, 2006 02:57 AM

... i think every country except Switzerland should be spanked and sent to their metaphorical room without supper...

Whining americans whine because that's what we are taught as kids... to whine and whine until we get our way... and if we don't get our way... we just sue... so... if you want to complain about whining americans you first need to complain about the parents that nuture that emotion....

and the people that live in new orleans... are poor.. because they don't want to get a job... and just leach off of governmental programs... if Opera can get out of poverty... than so can they... it's just their personal decision to be lazy... and for the few that actually are trying to get ahead... i apologize...

Lightsluvr August 2nd, 2006 02:42 PM

Walking in the stupid shoes...
 
OK flame me. But I am so ticked at the people who were safely evacuated by the US government and now have the kahunas to sue the government for "enabling" Israel to defend itself against Hezbollah!

What rock do these people live under?

JMHO

LL

needsvacation August 5th, 2006 11:43 AM

NO flame...point very well taken. We live in a very "poor me" society and it's everybody else's fault society.

momofmeg September 8th, 2006 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeanS
Well, I think the US certainly dropped the ball to help the victims of Katrina. I cannot imagine having to live in those horrible conditions while in the richest country of the world.

At the same time, I cannot sympathize with those who insisting on staying after the mayor stated "This is the storm we've all feared". Although I know some people did not have the means to leave, it would have been nice if they loaded up a bunch of buses and got those people the heck out of there! And why didn't they open up the freeway in the opposite direction for people to leave?? Certainly no one was coming IN to town!

Some did not have the means to leave not ALL-many a car was seen in that footage on tV- so people did have a way out-many just chose to stay.

I have friends who have family in southern Mississippi. Her family were not even going to leave-but my friend INSISTED her brother bring their 86 year old mother to GA. Her brother's home was destroyed and so was her mothers'-but yet he was not even going to leave-he only did becuase she badgered him into bringing their mother to her.

rescuedad September 13th, 2006 07:31 PM

The point is if you make a conscious decision to leave the country you are assuming risks. Yes our forefathers took risks such as venturing into uncharted waters, meeting strange people not knowing if they would be friendly or hostile and so on. You avoid these risks by staying HOME! If you decide to go don't complain to me about what happened to you. I loved my cruise but was a little uneasy about being out of the country but if I found myself in unwanted trouble there who made the decision to go? I wasn't forced! so who should pay the price for this.

DavidBgood September 15th, 2006 04:02 PM

Problem is, if you stay at home since it makes you feel safe, then fine.
But the rest of world is still out there..it will not go away.

You cannot wrap yourself as an individual or a nation in a comfort blanket and hope all the "bad men go away".....they will not.

If they see you doing that...then they win.

If you have the balls to experience life out with your comfort zone, they lose and have to think again.

There maybe 5 people killed by a bomb attack, that's tragic. But if it puts off 500,000 from traveling, then they win.

It's time to stand up within reason regarding the place you are going too, and not the "unknown" threat of coming out from under your comfort blanket, because as we have all seen the "bad men" can get under there as well.

No hiding place, just the ability to stick two fingers up and say I'm getting on with my life.

Mike M September 15th, 2006 04:50 PM

Well said David:

Terrorism wins when they disrupt our way of life and take away what he hold most dear; Our Freedom. One of those freedoms I hold most dear is my freedom to travel. Granted we have to put up with some security and open up our eyes but we can't crawl in a hole and hope that they go away and don't hurt us because they will.

Because in the end almost everyone in the world wants the same basic things that we all want. If you take religion and politics out of the equation.

Take care,
Mike

Fern September 16th, 2006 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike M
If you take religion and politics out of the equation.

If only we could... :(

DavidBgood September 17th, 2006 03:30 PM

You can, just dont get mixed up in or confused by a "supposed threat to all" picture that some give, that will given the odds never touch you in reality.

ie the chances of you being killed by a bomb on a plane, in port , on ship are nil to the millionth.....go and see the world.

hazelson September 24th, 2006 01:50 AM

I saw a news report last week that showed many of the Canadians "rescued" by the government - free of charge - are now going back in. I think there should be a one "rescue" law. If it happens again - you're on your own. Things have quited down but it's still not a safe place to be just yet.

DavidBgood September 24th, 2006 02:48 PM

Hi Jen...lets keep cost out of this for any of the nations and people willing to stand up and go into the world.

Personally, I salute them as they have the balls to say that they will lead there own lives and these guys aint getting the better of me.

If people like us think " I cant go there" because my goverment may have to rescue me...then those that would pin us in our own boundary win.

Our troops go into places that NO you should not go to, but for those places not deemed as war zones, go..

For one it backs up and supports the principal of why they are there...freedom and two yes I will pay a few bucks to protect my fellow country men,if they need rescued, as these guys are flying a flag.

Why on that side of the pond does cost always have to come into it, as if someone got something for free?

Babe, look at the bigger picture.

rescuedad September 25th, 2006 07:06 PM

I am not against travel and I agree the terrorists win when one incident causes many people to fear travel. Maybe I was unclear and a little cold saying "stay home" I was simply making a point of assuming risks and taking responsibilty if something were to happen. I certainly would assume more risk traveling to Bagdad then I would walking from my living room to my kitchen. Risks are everywhere. We make decisions in our life based on risk/reward everyday. If I make the decision to travel to a risky area of the world I alone should pay the price for that decision and hope, not demand, my countrymen come to my rescue. But, if safety is a concern to someone, the decision can be exploring parts of OUR country on a vacation instead of going abroad.

DavidBgood September 27th, 2006 03:44 PM

Rescuedad, that is a really good point and I think it is where we may have crossed swords wrongly… as I may have miss understood your point...not new for me :roll:

My thing is ignorant people, "I am not going to cruise in Eastern Europe, because there is trouble in..xxxxxx.." and that place is usually hundreds of miles away from "the action"...That’s ignorance or fear of something never to be a reality.

Put it this way if there was a problem, the ships would not go there or near it. So I'm talking people on normal vacations across our “normal? world.

BUT, people that as individuals that have had some mad "idea" or a personal "crusade" to go and help these ?supposed? poor people....no sympathy as they placed themselves into that danger zone....and you should not have gone in the first place. These are not tourists that we are talking about.

However, some people not go on a "crusade" but through work sometimes have to go into these places and if they are kidnapped etc, then I have major sympathy.. And that goes for people that work for the major charities etc, who can as an organization change things for these people affected, but not some deluded “evangelistic?.

If the whole point was vacations only, then you and your TA would have be mental to allow people to be placed in a position of danger :shock:

And if you do and go for it, then you’re stupid…So just get on with it, it was your call.

Really I think we are talking about mentalists here that think they can go and "change" the world forgetting the potential consequences of their actions, and not "ordinary" people on vacation.

Or in this case, do I really understand “who? or “what? these people where doing that placed them in danger that their government had to rescue them?. Someone please explain that has seen the coverage. as some of us do not get your television reports..

DavidBgood October 7th, 2006 04:19 PM

Silence between posts in itself, can actually say you called it right or not and I’m asking you what happened to the opinions on this thread? And I’m asking the people or country that can chant at every occasion USA…. USA!

Where are the people ready to stand up or voice opinion against those that would not allow us to live our lives…unless you totally fear them or what is even more worrying is you ignore them and the problem…. as you feel it does not touch you in your own personal bubble?

You go silent, as you don’t know how to deal with what is being presented to you…..then.they win, and forget that all that PC crap because you don’t want to offend anyone! Lets talk reality…..

Make a stand and a statement. You cannot fight this fight by staying in your own comfort zone, ie you now just vacation at home because it’s easy, safe and ignore what is happening in the rest of the world, that’s really disappointing.

So lets hear it for “these people aren’t going to direct my life?….You don’t win bud.

Sorry... I'm a patriot of freedom and will not be cowered by those that would try and take that away from me, by "whatever threat" or means

Vent over :D

Mean Dean October 8th, 2006 02:03 AM

David,

Yes, we are the nation that will chant “USA? every opportunity. We believe we’re the greatest nation in history, and we take every opportunity to rub it in the world’s face. Not always the most dignified way to present ourselves.

We’re still young enough to forget at times that the Romans ruled the entire civilized world for a thousand years. A thousand years…….

And yet unlike the Romans, Americans really have no desire for conquest. Perhaps we’re too self-absorbed, perhaps we just want to be left alone. We rarely initiate conflict, but respond well when conflict is initiated against us.

And as difficult as it may be to believe for some, Americans are just humans like everyone else. We get fired up when challenged, and then the flames of passion cool and we go back to our daily lives. In every conflict where our nation was directly threatened, we have prevailed. And after the mayhem has ended we go back to our daily lives. It is human nature.

We humans can sustain trauma for only so long. And after that time we go insane, or we go about our daily lives.

Going about our daily lives isn’t surrender – indeed, it is the surest sign that the enemy has not prevailed. You see, when our daily lives are changed, when our way of live is irrevocably altered, then we have lost something. Something very precious.

Passions cool, threads die. It is the natural course of things. (As natural as things get around here anyway.) A thread that has run its course doesn’t signify anything beyond that.

I applaud your stand for freedom. I applaud your stand against those who seek to take that from us. You’d make a fine American, for what it’s worth.

Dean

DavidBgood October 8th, 2006 03:53 PM

Dean, what a well though out and presented post...Okay maybe I was flying flags too hard here :D I thank you, and yes nationality should not come into peoples travel plans or life....but I wonder.

How many people have been put off going into places of the world on a cruise ship "safe place" because of something that may or may not effect them. So they go for the safe options, that allow’s these people to place them in that position,,,which is what they want?

But I have some appreciation of that scenario regarding comfort, since the first time I ever landed in the USA was in New York and I was a bag of nerves because of too many US cop shows etc and "NOT" the reality that they did not present. I was walking about expecting to be mugged or shot at every street corner.....it did not happen.

Yes, I know it could happen if I place myself in the wrong place at the wrong time,,,but in reality or chance no. Since then been back God knows how many times, and I now understand..

All I'm really trying to say is stand up and don’t be put off doing things in life because of the "bogie man"

I would be really interested to hear from those that have taken that view and got on with it and go into the world and also from those cruisers that feel they can book only the "comfort zone" itineraries ie your side of the pond…. Carib etc.

Apart from cost…WHY?


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