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  #31 (permalink)  
Old August 19th, 2006, 02:57 PM
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Originally Posted by dfhawk60
well thats the point, its all in a point of view. by taking notice of items that are not "in your face" it is much easier to associate your trip with a good experience. if you walk around and only notice the bad, your in for an unhappy trip.
the point of my comment was to relate that there is as much good (more in my opinion) going on with the kids for someone new who might have gotten the wrong idea after reading the thread.
It takes only one out-of-control, awful, nasty, loud, obnoxious kid to cast a shadow on a good time.
There can be 350 "good" kids behaving themselves on the ship, but if one kid is out of control and misbehaving, then it bothers other people. I think that is the point here. And I am not anti-children at all. I have some myself.
In fact, when my children are aboard ship and behaving, and someone else's kids are misbehaving, it really bothers me. I don't go saying, "Oh, well, that's no big deal because my four are being good, while those two are being bad." Numbers have nothing to do with it.
An irritant is an irritant.
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  #32 (permalink)  
Old August 19th, 2006, 03:22 PM
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I agree with the poster about kids on a Disney cruise..I went two years ago on a Disney cruise with my girlfriend and her daughter and niece and the kids were so well behaved and in fact made the grown ups jealous of the good time they were having, so I did not see any of the behavior describe in so many pos..Disney does what it advertises

To bad Disney could not be more affordable for families

Other cruise lines may advertise their children's program but as anyone with a pre-teen or teenager knows, it's tough to keep them entertained for more then 5 minutes at any given time

Does not excuse their behavior..I believe that's called home training
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Old August 19th, 2006, 03:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lola
Quote:
Originally Posted by dfhawk60
well thats the point, its all in a point of view. by taking notice of items that are not "in your face" it is much easier to associate your trip with a good experience. if you walk around and only notice the bad, your in for an unhappy trip.
the point of my comment was to relate that there is as much good (more in my opinion) going on with the kids for someone new who might have gotten the wrong idea after reading the thread.
It takes only one out-of-control, awful, nasty, loud, obnoxious kid to cast a shadow on a good time.
There can be 350 "good" kids behaving themselves on the ship, but if one kid is out of control and misbehaving, then it bothers other people. I think that is the point here. And I am not anti-children at all. I have some myself.
In fact, when my children are aboard ship and behaving, and someone else's kids are misbehaving, it really bothers me. I don't go saying, "Oh, well, that's no big deal because my four are being good, while those two are being bad." Numbers have nothing to do with it.
An irritant is an irritant.
so if i understand, this means if you run into ANY of the following:
one out of control kid
one drunk adult
one smoker that is out of place
one person holding a chair
one coffee machine that is not working
one person in jeans or no jacket on formal night
one crying baby
that is all it would take???
get my point yet??? it is not about the numbers. i was not defending bad children by saying there are more good than bad. try SEEING the good kids and maybe that event will out shine what you saw watching the bad. walk up to the upper deck where the kids clubs are and watch kids who just met play and get along, you just might enjoy yourself. and yes we are parents, but ours are now 22 and 20.
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  #34 (permalink)  
Old August 19th, 2006, 07:52 PM
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I think she said she saw four good kids when she saw her own.


No, it's not about the numbers. It's about the fact that there are different things that bother people.
Crying babies in the dining room.
Two 8-year-olds playing in the elevator on a cruise ship.
A drunken boor crashing around the pool area.

Does this mean the person who was bothered by one of the above should go to another area of the boat, gaze fondly at the droves of people who are well-behaved, and feel happy about it? How pretty is that?

Get MY point yet?

This is a board for gripes. And some people don't like misbehaving children. Some don't like drunken adults. Some don't like smokers.
Air your gripes here ... you have a right to express your views!
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Old August 19th, 2006, 09:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fruitcake
I think she said she saw four good kids when she saw her own.


No, it's not about the numbers. It's about the fact that there are different things that bother people.
Crying babies in the dining room.
Two 8-year-olds playing in the elevator on a cruise ship.
A drunken boor crashing around the pool area.

Does this mean the person who was bothered by one of the above should go to another area of the boat, gaze fondly at the droves of people who are well-behaved, and feel happy about it? How pretty is that?

Get MY point yet?

This is a board for gripes. And some people don't like misbehaving children. Some don't like drunken adults. Some don't like smokers.
Air your gripes here ... you have a right to express your views!
i not only agree with the right express views, but i agree with them to a degree. i added my two cents to this thred because it was starting to look like the "Kids" were the root of all evil. my only point to any comments i have made here are for the first timmer who would read this and say to them selfs "OMG i can never take my family on a cruise, all the kids are BAD" and this is just NOT the case.

enjoy everyone. we be packing
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  #36 (permalink)  
Old August 19th, 2006, 10:53 PM
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I can say that I do see both sides of this issue. I have seen plenty of preteens running around on some of the ships I have traveled on, but their behavior has been matched by their parents who are getting seriously drunk at many of the ships bars. What can we do? I for sure wouldn't want to say any thing to a drunken parent that might get me beaten up. I believe that the behavior we see on board is that which exist in a lot of people’s homes today. My friends I know many of you like my self do wonder what can be done. The best thing we can do is to complain to the purser and walk the other way when we see such behavior. It may just save us a broken bone or two.
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  #37 (permalink)  
Old August 19th, 2006, 11:42 PM
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kids ARE the root of all evil... They are born... they are raised by parents who spoil them.. or do not discipline them... or think that AWw my kid is sooo cute when he spits on that womans toe... or think yes pushing all the buttons in the elevator is funny... IF I WANTED TO STOP ON EVERY FLOOR I'D TAKE THE FRIG STAIRS!!!!! When the kids grow up into young adults they are the ones who are crazy and don't follow the laws drinking under age and getting into wrecks skewing the driving age for everyone else... these same parents have parties for their kids that give alcohol to everyone in attendance no matter the age... these kids grow up into unproductive adults who are snide and rude and don't care about other people because they were given everything in life and were told things were cute when they weren't... These adults turn into the horrid parents that birthed them in the first place.. CONTINUING the circle or EVIL!!!!! so Yes.. Kids are the root of evil...
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  #38 (permalink)  
Old August 19th, 2006, 11:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lola
Quote:
Originally Posted by dfhawk60
well thats the point, its all in a point of view. by taking notice of items that are not "in your face" it is much easier to associate your trip with a good experience. if you walk around and only notice the bad, your in for an unhappy trip.
the point of my comment was to relate that there is as much good (more in my opinion) going on with the kids for someone new who might have gotten the wrong idea after reading the thread.
It takes only one out-of-control, awful, nasty, loud, obnoxious kid to cast a shadow on a good time.
There can be 350 "good" kids behaving themselves on the ship, but if one kid is out of control and misbehaving, then it bothers other people. I think that is the point here. And I am not anti-children at all. I have some myself.
In fact, when my children are aboard ship and behaving, and someone else's kids are misbehaving, it really bothers me. I don't go saying, "Oh, well, that's no big deal because my four are being good, while those two are being bad." Numbers have nothing to do with it.
An irritant is an irritant.

I agree with Lola...numbers have nothing to do with it.

If you go to the threatre and sitting in front of you are two or three people/kids talking or laughing during the movie...you don't look around and think..."oh well, I'm not going to complain because at least the other 300 or so people aren't talking...!" No sir...you'll complain to managment...

No not all children are brats...but it only takes ONE or TWO to create a scene, ruin an evening or cause some people to take a vow of celibacy.
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  #39 (permalink)  
Old August 20th, 2006, 11:25 AM
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Quote:
kids ARE the root of all evil... They are born... they are raised by parents who spoil them.. or do not discipline them... or think that AWw my kid is sooo cute when he spits on that womans toe... or think yes pushing all the buttons in the elevator is funny... IF I WANTED TO STOP ON EVERY FLOOR I'D TAKE THE FRIG STAIRS!!!!! When the kids grow up into young adults they are the ones who are crazy and don't follow the laws drinking under age and getting into wrecks skewing the driving age for everyone else... these same parents have parties for their kids that give alcohol to everyone in attendance no matter the age... these kids grow up into unproductive adults who are snide and rude and don't care about other people because they were given everything in life and were told things were cute when they weren't... These adults turn into the horrid parents that birthed them in the first place.. CONTINUING the circle or EVIL!!!!! so Yes.. Kids are the root of evil...

Were you not a kid once also? Some kids are well behaved, others are completely undisciplined. The well behaved, polite kids do not deserve to get the wrath of the adult world for the actions of misbehaving ones.
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Old August 20th, 2006, 10:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scatman
Quote:
kids ARE the root of all evil... They are born... they are raised by parents who spoil them.. or do not discipline them... or think that AWw my kid is sooo cute when he spits on that womans toe... or think yes pushing all the buttons in the elevator is funny... IF I WANTED TO STOP ON EVERY FLOOR I'D TAKE THE FRIG STAIRS!!!!! When the kids grow up into young adults they are the ones who are crazy and don't follow the laws drinking under age and getting into wrecks skewing the driving age for everyone else... these same parents have parties for their kids that give alcohol to everyone in attendance no matter the age... these kids grow up into unproductive adults who are snide and rude and don't care about other people because they were given everything in life and were told things were cute when they weren't... These adults turn into the horrid parents that birthed them in the first place.. CONTINUING the circle or EVIL!!!!! so Yes.. Kids are the root of evil...

Were you not a kid once also? Some kids are well behaved, others are completely undisciplined. The well behaved, polite kids do not deserve to get the wrath of the adult world for the actions of misbehaving ones.

Must have missed a post....how are the "polite kids getting the wrath of the adult world for the actions of misbehaving ones?"
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  #41 (permalink)  
Old August 21st, 2006, 10:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reverendjeff
I think cruising should be a family experience, but there has to be some limitations.
To the new cruiser who is considering taking thier family, but may now be discouraged...read the original poster's qoute above and let it be your guide! Cruising with my 4yr old has been nothing but wonderful! It's a perfect FAMILY vacation. No cooking, cleaning, no worries, all expensed paid vacation with new scenery and experiences every day! Everyone here has the right to gripe about the concerning issues above, they do occur and need to be handled appropriately. But everyone's tolerance level is different. Has it ever ruined my cruise? Absolutely not! I hope as my daughter gets older, we will be able to share more awesome experiences on different ships TOGETHER..as a FAMILY.
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Old August 21st, 2006, 02:27 PM
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I cruised with my kids when they were little.
I cruised with them last year -- both are in their 20s.
They were well-behaved on all the cruises we took.

No one should be frightened off by any of these posts ... just remember where parental responsibility lies!
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Old August 23rd, 2006, 11:44 AM
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Default Unruly Children

I too have noticed children roaming about the ships, running up and down the halls late at night, pushing all the elevator buttons, and enjoying the adult only areas with impunity. The two worse examples of behaviors by children I have personally observed while cruising were as folows:

1. During the art auction on the Vision of the Seas - children were throwing food off the upper decks on the art patrons below.

2. In the enclosed mini-golf area of the Grand Princess, children were not putting the golf balls - but driving them, and the golf balls were bouncing all over the place - a potentially dangerous situation. I was personally forced to reprimand the children as I was not wearing a helmut or body armour.

And guess what - nothing is going to change. Why? Because the number of cruisers are up, ships are sailing to capacity, and so long as that is the situation, the cruise industry is not going to "rock the boat".

The situation will change when the cruise industry suffers from declining business, and that decline is directly co-related to out of control children.

Of course - that doesn't mean that we can't advocate for stringent control of children (in other words - actually have them follow the rules and act with proper decorum), or to advocate for adult only cruises.

Until then - it is such a shame that the cruise lines or this website can't publish statistics as to the best time to cruise without children - so consumers can decide for themselves when it is best to travel. At one time there were limited number of children on board when school was in session - but that lately that strategy has not paid dividends. And of course those parents who don't believe that education is important for their children are more likely to not be overly concern about how their children behave.

Good luck - and be thankful those unruly children are not yours! And remember - while sitting on the ground floor of the atruim on any cruise ship - bring your umbrella.
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Old August 23rd, 2006, 03:04 PM
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One way to help parents be responsible for their children is to make them.... you know pay...$$$$$$$ ....

If their child damages or ruins something... let's say some art work...or knocks down a passenger while running uncontrolled through the hallways...they, as parents should pay. If the child throw something over the rail...on passengers below...(which has happen to us) They should suffer the consequences.

Some kids tossed soda over the rail onto our veranda...the soda poured over our heads and on to my blouse...everything was sticky to say the least. We looked up and saw some young boys looking down at us and laughing ...We were angry and shocked. Trust me...we were not saying "oh that's ok...they're just kids"...what they did was mean, and they needed to experience the consequences of their actions.

You really notice the difference when you compare children who have grow-up with manners, have been taught self-control, etc. Parents with uncontrolled children think, "Wow...you people just lucked out"....NO!...to have good kids takes work and effort...it means parents working with their children and not relying on the school system and others to teach THEIR children. Personal time and EFFORT is needed!

We live in an excessively permissive society, and I'm not foolish enough to think we can change deeply ingrained believe systems with a word or two or even a paragraph...

But I'm also a realist... A monster has been created...a growing society of adults unable to control themselves or their children. To continue cruising, we're just going to have to learn to work / travel around these parents and children.[/url]
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  #45 (permalink)  
Old August 23rd, 2006, 05:28 PM
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Fieldmouse...you have to conclude that children's behavior on a cruise ship reflects their behavior at home because their parents just don't care. I once had a neighbor who had three children ranging from 4 to 11 years old and they were always outside and became the terrors of the neighborhood, always dirty, scrounging food wherever they could, destructive, rude, loud. Their Dad worked during the day. Where was their Mom? Sleeping, drinking and playing cards with her friends all day, she cared less where her children were or what they were doing.

On my last cruise, I was waiting for the elevator and when the doors opened a bunch of young children ran out of the elevator and one little boy crashed right into an elderly woman using a walker and almost knocked her flat on her face....he just ran away laughing.

Because Royal Caribbean is leaning heavily towards installing features on their new ships geared more and more towards children, I will not sail on RCI....ice skating rink, rock climbing wall, miniature golf, inline skate track, basketball court, surfing, etc. I understand that some adults enjoy these venues also but I believe RCI has laid too many eggs in one basket in attempting to provide "kid friendly" activities.

Maybe if parents are reading these posts, instead of getting defensive, should set ground rules for their children once onboard. But, I dout it, it will, unfortunately, take a horrible accident to bring the message home. If parents are not prepared to monitor their children, perhaps they should leave them home.

I also think the cruiselines should publish a guideline (how sad is that) for parents when they board the ship and empower the staff to bring unruly behavior to the parent's attention immediately.
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Old August 23rd, 2006, 07:13 PM
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If you wish to avoid both children and hurricanes (somewhow the two subjects seem to fit together), cruise from the middle of November till the middle of May, leaving out spring break and Christmas. There should be very few children on your ship.
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Old August 23rd, 2006, 09:55 PM
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We always cruise in late November - early December when the little precious ones should be in school. It doesn't work - there are always enough kids on board to fill the adults only whirlpool, run up and down the halls, and press all the elevator keys. I shudder to think what a cruise would be like when the ship was actually overrun by children and teens.
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Old August 24th, 2006, 09:49 AM
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you all are making me more and more glad that we only cruise HAL. We have even cruised during Easter break one year and it was not a bad experience. Yes, there are children on board and yes, some do misbehave. but, I think the "old fogey" myth about HAL helps keep many away. (shhhhh--that's our secret)
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Old August 24th, 2006, 11:26 AM
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We typically cruise Nov/Dec -- not on holiday weeks.
We would never cruise from mid-February through April, when schools have winter/spring breaks.
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Old August 24th, 2006, 03:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fruitcake
We typically cruise Nov/Dec -- not on holiday weeks.
We would never cruise from mid-February through April, when schools have winter/spring breaks.
Amen Fruitcake...we learned the hard way!
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Old August 25th, 2006, 04:33 PM
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Bottom line, children are children,,,,thank God

Adults, parents are a different. problem in we have a don't care society from some adults and children,,,but with others that do.

You will find them in all aspects of life....everyday. Some that care for others and consider THEIR personal impact on others,,,,,but some that dont.

So don’t dissect it too much, as the majority of people you cruise with are nice caring people....its the a**holes that appear to be always in your face that YOUR problem is with...so...ignore them.

This is not just a cruising problem, it’s a vacation problem. Problem is that on a ship you see them more in your face.

Show me the ship with perfect passengers and I will show you a dream....just do your own thing and pick your line to suit what you expect from a cruise and the others around you.

The options are all out there……but never or seldom perfect
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Old August 29th, 2006, 01:34 AM
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I have 2 children 17 & 8 now with that said, I think griping about Kids is a incorrect approach.

The Gripe should be about enforcement. =examples=

kids in stairwell = drunk adult falling on me at a stage show

kids elevator buttons = adult holding open doors waiting for other adults
to get on

kids being loud = married couple screaming at each other scary!

kids in adult pool = couples talking loud with raunchy jokes or
couples who are practically doing it in the adults
only area.

kids @ buffet = adult putting food back after on his plate or
grabbing butter with their hand

Any of these are awful and the cruise line should enforce the rules plain and simple.

But if the kids bug you so much, then approach cruise lines for over 21 cruising only.

When my children were younger I only saw movies from VHS or DVD until they reached at least 5 or 6 years old or I got a babysitter.

It is all about common respect and courteous to others ,and this type of thread. I feel is mean spirited toward the many families who care about themselves and others.

I plan on enjoy our vacations together and will continue to do so.
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Old August 29th, 2006, 08:39 AM
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The people who have responded to this Post are not being mean spirited, you're missing the point expressed by so many. Bottom line is, if you bring underage children on a cruise ship vacation, monitor them, spend time with them (it is a family vacation, no?), know where they are at all times, set ground rules for proper behavior and ship conduct and enforce them. Passengers and staff shouldn't have to reprimand your child, that is the parent or guardian's responsibility. You are comparing apples to oranges which is not accurate. Underage children cannot be compared to adults. I'm not defending adults because we all know some of them leave their brains home when they go on vacation but they are adults. If they are acting in an offensive way, notify the cruise staff and ask them to intervene. A child not only endangers themselves but fellow passengers in their constant pursuit of unsupervised fun. The passengers that are offended by these children shouldn't have to sail on cruiselines that cater to adults only. If all parents talk to their children prior to sailing and enforce the rules stated, there shouldn't be a problem. We are stating our thoughts to all the parents that don't supervise their children. Maybe if they read these posts, they will think twice before they allow their children to run free on a cruise ship. I have been cruising for years with my grandson, he is always with me, is never allowed to leave our stateroom unless I am with him, if he goes to the game room, I am with him, if he wants ice cream, I am with him, we are traveling TOGETHER, enjoying each other's company, if I didn't want to spend time with him, I'd leave him home. It's all about respect for your fellow passengers.
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Old August 29th, 2006, 10:19 AM
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Well said rosetattoo. I would NEVER think of letting any of my grandkids run around by themselves anywhere. Not even on a cruise ship. You just never know what might happen. There are people everywhere that prey on kids. I could never live with myself if something happened to them on "my watch" because I was to lazy to supervise them. While we are on the subject, how bad is the kid problem Thanksgiving week on a cruise ship? That's when we are going on ours. I didn't think about the holiday until I had booked already.
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Old August 29th, 2006, 10:42 AM
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You know = I would not mind taking a cruise with lots of kids like the ones RosetTatto has.

So the problem isn't the number of kids on a ship - it is the parents that don't supervise their kids.
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Old August 29th, 2006, 11:10 AM
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The people who have responded to this Post are not being mean spirited, you're missing the point expressed by so many.

I agree rosetattoo, allot of posters have not been mean-spirited. But some of the posters sound like children should be outlawed in public. so this thread can be un-welcoming to families, and cruising is supposed to be fun



Passengers and staff shouldn't have to reprimand your child, that is the parent or guardian's responsibility. You are comparing apples to oranges which is not accurate. Underage children cannot be compared to adults.

Wrong, staff should enforce the rules. What I gather on this post is most families behave, while some nut-ball no-class groups run wild. The ship needs to police the passengers and enforce the rules. All major theme parks and hotels have their own security staff for this reason. Bad behavior from adults or children is plain bad behavior, but adults can be more dangerous.


The passengers that are offended by these children shouldn't have to sail on cruise lines that cater to adults only
.

If there is a market for adult only cruise's then why shouldn't people use it, talk to the cruise lines if children are such a problem.

If all parents talk to their children prior to sailing and enforce the rules stated, there shouldn't be a problem. We are stating our thoughts to all the parents that don't supervise their children.

One of the worst ways to start a meeting in the business world is to say " I know it's not all of you but some have been causing trouble". Most people respond the same to this tactic , negatively.
Just talk to the problem people not everyone. Maybe the GRIPE would be better titled PEOPLE in general


Maybe if they read these posts, they will think twice before they allow their children to run free on a cruise ship. I have been cruising for years with my grandson, he is always with me, is never allowed to leave our stateroom unless I am with him, if he goes to the game room, I am with him, if he wants ice cream, I am with him, we are traveling TOGETHER, enjoying each other's company, if I didn't want to spend time with him, I'd leave him home. It's all about respect for your fellow passengers.

My daughter and her friend love organized activities they meet other children and have a blast. Children need some supervised (by trained adults) time alone when they can play. Like our next cruise has many children activities. My 8 yr likes to pretend to be grown-up without dad watching every move.
But your right most of the time we will all be together. We always spend most the time together it is a family vacation. The only kind of vacations I love and enjoy to go on.
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Old August 29th, 2006, 12:00 PM
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Personally, I wouldn't want a cruise without children anymore than I want a neighborhood without them, but I don't want them out past curfew making racket and keeping me awake all night. You wouldn't let your children run amuck at home why on a cruise ship?
I just think like previous posts have said, if this really is a family vacation then be together as a family. Yes, there are camps and activities for the kids but I don't think that at the gangplank you all go seperate ways and then meet back in a week to disembark. I hope that we don't choose a cruise for the reason that you get a week off from the kids while someone else oversees them all week. Cozzette
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Old August 29th, 2006, 12:11 PM
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This is a gripe board right? So we are all taking the opportunity to express our feelings...but in all fairness, I haven't read anything on this or any other thread on this board that was mean-spirited toward children. Parents can sometimes be a little hyper-sensitive when it comes to children and even more so their children.

So stop and think...will these same sensitive parents allow ANYONE, staff or crew to enforce rules!? NO WAY! It's these parents that turn a blind eye to anything their little darlings do. "Oh..please...it's nothing that they throw trash, run down the hallways, jump on furniture, pick off wall-paper, spit, scream. They're just children....don't be so mean...live and let live...they're my kids...I'll decide when they have gone too far!"

Passengers buck at following the rules as it is...can you imagine them allowing the staff to enforce rules on THEIR children!

Rather, it's us...the mean-spirited adults, old foggies who are wrong, making an issue about nothing!

Pleasssssssse, permissive parents are responsible for creating the rude and undisciplined teens and adults of the future. They are learning NOW what is acceptable and what they can get away with.

The growing number of rude adults and teens is proof that the new system is working great! Thanks :evil:
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Old August 29th, 2006, 12:55 PM
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I guess we will have to agree to dis-agree on the essence of this thread.

As a family we take about 4 vacations a year, as we are planning our next one we always like to look at pictures of the last couple trips.

My son (the teenager) remarked the other night ,as we were watching the photo cd of our last trip, " I love our trips " and that says it all.

Happy sailing to all
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Old August 29th, 2006, 02:17 PM
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Default Its a Behavior Thing - Not An Age Thing

So it actually all comes down to behavior - not age. If everyone could obey the rules and act decent - we would all be able to enjoy our trips.
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