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  #61 (permalink)  
Old August 29th, 2006, 04:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Fieldmouse
This is a gripe board right? So we are all taking the opportunity to express our feelings...but in all fairness, I haven't read anything on this or any other thread on this board that was mean-spirited toward children. Parents can sometimes be a little hyper-sensitive when it comes to children and even more so their children.

So stop and think...will these same sensitive parents allow ANYONE, staff or crew to enforce rules!? NO WAY! It's these parents that turn a blind eye to anything their little darlings do. "Oh..please...it's nothing that they throw trash, run down the hallways, jump on furniture, pick off wall-paper, spit, scream. They're just children....don't be so mean...live and let live...they're my kids...I'll decide when they have gone too far!"

Passengers buck at following the rules as it is...can you imagine them allowing the staff to enforce rules on THEIR children!

Rather, it's us...the mean-spirited adults, old foggies who are wrong, making an issue about nothing!

Pleasssssssse, permissive parents are responsible for creating the rude and undisciplined teens and adults of the future. They are learning NOW what is acceptable and what they can get away with.

The growing number of rude adults and teens is proof that the new system is working great! Thanks :evil:

I can't agree more!!!
Well said, Fieldmouse.
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Old August 29th, 2006, 04:54 PM
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I completely agree with you, Fieldmouse. The children that act up the most have the parents that will be offended and confrontational if you say anything.
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Old August 30th, 2006, 11:34 AM
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The last cruise I went on, I had more of an issue with rude adults than children. This ship had some heavy doors and it amazed me how many adults would think nothing of letting one slam in your face rather than be courteous and hold it. People would bump into me and not say excuse me or sorry. I felt like the most invisible person on the ship!

A friend just came home from RCCL's Adventure of the Seas and we got into a discussion about kids on board. She has two boys 13 and 17. She said staffers were strict about curfew and about where kids were allowed and not allowed. Her oldest was walking back to the room and a staffer stopped him to be sure he was headed to his room and not out.

Rudeness is unfortunately becoming the norm in this country. It's not even limited to vacation - go into a store and see how many cashiers acknowledge customers with a hello or a thank you. Kids learn by example and if they are treated with rudeness or their parents are rude, the kids will learn to be rude. When I run into a child that holds the door for me or is polite, I always acknowledge that with a thank you. I prefer to pay attention to the good ones and ignore the rude people.
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Old September 17th, 2006, 10:32 PM
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im a 16 yr old and i NEVER have done any of the things that you have posted... i am truly appualed at your attitude toward children... you too were a child once... im sorry that you may have had a bad experience with children, but dont condem all children for it.
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Old September 18th, 2006, 10:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by artguy
im a 16 yr old and i NEVER have done any of the things that you have posted... i am truly appualed at your attitude toward children... you too were a child once... im sorry that you may have had a bad experience with children, but dont condem all children for it.
\

I'm glad to hear that you have never done any of the things mentioned in these threads...since you're young...there's lots of cruising years ahead for you...I hope you'll continue to enjoy the experience as much as we do.

BUT...that said, please note, no one on these threads has ever condemned ALL children, many of the posters are parents...including myself.

To prove we love children should we ignore bad conduct, overlook poor manners? It's ok to be offended but don't do anything or heaven forbid...say anything...Be passive...since parents aren't assuming the responsibility...we should do the same?

Should we just assume without proper training, imput or instruction rude, ill mannered, self-centered children will grow-up to be fine, caring adults? For the answer, just look at the rude, self-centered adults you meet...can you imagine that as children they were TAUGHT differently? Most likely their parents were passive, and no one else took on the responsbility to TEACH them, because it is so much easier to just let it go. Or maybe their parents thought they would learn on their own, or from the teachers at school...well they didn't!!

If, we see unresolved issues and just ignore them... afraid to say anything... wanting to be soooooo careful not to offend anyone....we are in effect giving tacit (implied) approval!

Please read the posts again...I think you will see that we love and care for children and teens...they're the future of planet earth. But we have genuine concerns that cannot nor should be ignored.
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Old September 18th, 2006, 11:14 AM
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I agree with everything you've written, Fieldmouse!

Artguy needs to realize that the posters here are not condemning all children/young adults.
Just voicing some complaints about those who misbehave.

It's the same with any of these gripe threads.
No one is saying ALL cruisers are chaise hogs or wear jeans in the dining room or save chairs in the theater ... just some people do.
Criticizing some is not condemning all.
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Old September 19th, 2006, 02:54 PM
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Artguy is a young person with the right idea, but sorry bud, a bit mixed up here.

Let me ask you a question, how many pains in the A** do you have to go to school or college with, do you associate with them, are they your friends? I would guess no, so age in all these debates has nothing to do with it....it’s attitude that’s the problem.

Think of some of those "in your face children? I'm talking about, would you want to cruise with them and take their crap or attitude on ship?

The problem is soon they grow into adults, have children and let them do the same thing in life, in vacation or like them “whatever? in life…NO RULES. Apart from what is in their own head.

You must see that with your fellows even in school now.

But those of us that have grown older that experienced these people when younger have grown up and don’t want to live it anymore.

Me….. now I’d happily confront them and their parents, as people with this attitude need reminded that a lot of people do not think or act like them, and I’m passed hiding from them and their “ME? attitude, but that comes with age and experience..

You know the people or type that I am talking about., as they are in your class or school.

So the age of the children has NOTHING to do with it..what it is, is respect for others, think of others, consider your actions against the majority around you.

It's all called consideration, some have it, a lot don't. If we all had it then GRIPES would disappear.

You as an individual are on the right track, but do not make excuses for others that in your age bracket or your "real life" that you would avoid, in school or in college or on your home block.

The term children is an age thing, and thank God not all are the same in attitude.

You appear to have parental guidance and values, a lot dont know that value or have it and they waste a lot of peoples cruises as both adult and child....forgetting what they did to people in school as indiiduals.

Maybe as children, children should sort it out and stop these people growing into "things", that in turn... turn their children into "things".

How..... stand up to them from an early age.

Most don't they just Gripe on here about things they should have sorted years ago
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Old September 22nd, 2006, 10:41 PM
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Dang... old people can really take someting and make it something it isnt just like that... wow... you all may be dissapointed with children, but im more dissapointed with adults...
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  #69 (permalink)  
Old September 23rd, 2006, 12:26 AM
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On our last cruise we had a family seated nearby with a three year old child who cried and whined through every dinner in a loud piercing voice. The parents never once removed the child to give the rest of us a break. Nor did the dining room manager do anything about the noise. We always cruise when school is in session but never thought about the pre-schoolers. There were other older children on board but they were very well behaved.

The parents were totally unconcerned that their child was making dinner unpleasant for a lot of people. We have been seated near young children before and have hardly known they were there.

I have noticed that the staff does not enforce the rules where children are concerned - we have been concerned about young children spending a lot of time in the hot tubs - I don't think they know when they have had enough. Once we saw a 2 year old coming up the escalator in his bare feet with no parent in sight, young children in the elevators on their own etc. YOu would think that the staff could escort these kids to the front desk and have the parents called to retrieve them and be reminded about their responsiblity to look after their own children.
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Old September 23rd, 2006, 03:10 PM
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Artguy..I really tried to be nice and present to you that all adults, like children do not behave in the same way, and you cannot place them all in the same bucket, your a child, and your an adult.. So as individuals and age they should think different.....not !!!.

It don’t work in real life and your immaturity is showing, as children are people and not all of them "think or act" in the same way.

As for being old, yeah I am according to you and I have lived it, and seen all these people on all those points through it...and I have judged them all on their social skills all my life.

But your sixteen, just realise that the world does not revolve around you, as most of us oldies have seen it, done it harder and better than you have yet thought of... So show some respect....But you're sixteen and think you have all the answers......remembering that time and laughing my butt off.

Just don’t fall into the trap of justifying people that you would not touch in real life, no matter if they are 5 or 75, look to the individual not their age..
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Old September 23rd, 2006, 09:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by artguy
Dang... old people can really take someting and make it something it isnt just like that... wow... you all may be dissapointed with children, but im more dissapointed with adults...
I can't help but think that you're pulling our chain just to see us react!
8)
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Old September 24th, 2006, 02:58 PM
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Well thats what 16 year olds do....if my old fuddled brain remembers correctly.
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Old September 24th, 2006, 05:26 PM
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Reading these posts really make me sad and dissapointed. i am a 17 year old and i LOVE cruising. sad thing is i couldn't agree more with you. i think its all about how your raised, truly i do. i have always cared about others. on a cruise ship or at home, if im out with friends and they are rude it makes me sick. specialy on cruises because adults are the ones paying, i didnt pay for the cruise my parents did. i always take precautions to make sure my friends and i are not rude or disrespectful to others. like duh, that should be obvious. and thats not just because im mature now, i was always that way. by little brother is that way. plus im on a family vacation i like hanging with them since i rarely do at home. but i do like meeting kids my age and hanging out. but i do it at the scheduled events. what fun is it throwing things or hanging out on a staircare? that makes me uncomfortable. okay well sorry about the long post i just needed to say that. i apologize to all that have had bad experiences with kids, my peers set a bad reputation for others. and i know if im ever on a cruise i will stop the teens, even if you dont ask.
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Old September 24th, 2006, 09:15 PM
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Hi msklk,

You are the kind of teen I love to see on a cruise! (or anywhere else .) Your parents obviously brought you up to respect people, no matter what their age or their "status" and you listened.

You don't need to apologize for your "peers" (they really aren't, are they?).

You seem to have a good head on your shoulders and I'd feel privileged to cruise with you or your little brother any time.

Thank you for posting from the "other side" !
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Old September 25th, 2006, 11:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by msklk
Reading these posts really make me sad and dissapointed. i am a 17 year old and i LOVE cruising. sad thing is i couldn't agree more with you. i think its all about how your raised, truly i do. i have always cared about others. on a cruise ship or at home, if im out with friends and they are rude it makes me sick. specialy on cruises because adults are the ones paying, i didnt pay for the cruise my parents did. i always take precautions to make sure my friends and i are not rude or disrespectful to others. like duh, that should be obvious. and thats not just because im mature now, i was always that way. by little brother is that way. plus im on a family vacation i like hanging with them since i rarely do at home. but i do like meeting kids my age and hanging out. but i do it at the scheduled events. what fun is it throwing things or hanging out on a staircare? that makes me uncomfortable. okay well sorry about the long post i just needed to say that. i apologize to all that have had bad experiences with kids, my peers set a bad reputation for others. and i know if im ever on a cruise i will stop the teens, even if you dont ask.
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Old September 25th, 2006, 03:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fieldmouse
Quote:
Originally Posted by artguy
Dang... old people can really take someting and make it something it isnt just like that... wow... you all may be dissapointed with children, but im more dissapointed with adults...
I can't help but think that you're pulling our chain just to see us react!
8)
Exactly what I think!!!
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Old September 25th, 2006, 03:38 PM
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msklk for one, you by tone are a really nice person and long may you carry that attitude into life and into the future. But so is artguy, he's not a bad person, just a sixteen year old male. 8)

Actually the fact that you both post on here actually moves you outwith the mainstream of we are talking about, as the "culprits" would not care to respond or "justify"...But hey that's how it goes in life, some accept, some dont care..

You guys are okay....many happy vacations in the years to come..
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Old September 26th, 2006, 09:01 AM
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We have a 14 year old daughter that we cruise with. Her 21 year old sister used to cruise with us also. We have always let them have a certain amount of freedom on sea days and nights. They have to check in with us every couple of hours and have a curfew. They have always had to dine with us at night and dress up. We have never had a complaint or problem with them following our's and the ship's rules. If they ever were to disobey, then they would spend the remainder if the trip besides meals in the cabin. They have always chosen peers on the ship with common rules and manners. They have seen the bad side of many kids on ships, like drinking, sexual behavior and just plain rudeness. I count my blessings that my girls have followed the rules..but we are always watching and one should never say never..kids are kids and they need supervision...jmho....
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Old September 26th, 2006, 12:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ladypalmtree
We have a 14 year old daughter that we cruise with. Her 21 year old sister used to cruise with us also. We have always let them have a certain amount of freedom on sea days and nights. They have to check in with us every couple of hours and have a curfew. They have always had to dine with us at night and dress up. We have never had a complaint or problem with them following our's and the ship's rules. If they ever were to disobey, then they would spend the remainder if the trip besides meals in the cabin. They have always chosen peers on the ship with common rules and manners. They have seen the bad side of many kids on ships, like drinking, sexual behavior and just plain rudeness. I count my blessings that my girls have followed the rules..but we are always watching and one should never say never..kids are kids and they need supervision...jmho....
Good for you!
I wish more parents were that way.

When my girls were young and we cruised, they were always under supervision. [They were not even teens yet.]
Now when they've cruised with us, I let them run free -- of course they are in their mid-20s!
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Old September 28th, 2006, 08:50 PM
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We usually try to book our vacations when children are in school (or should be in school). Our parents wouldn't dream of taking us out of school for a vacation just to convenience themself. We found there is no safe time to take a cruise without being overrun by children (many well behaved, but way too many punks).

On a recent cruise, in LeBistro on the Dawn, there was a table of 3 couples with 5 kids between them. All 5 kids were running around the restaurant throwing dinner rolls. One kid actually reached into the bread basket of another couple's table. The gentleman grabbed the little brats hand and told him to drop the roll and behave himself. The father of the brat actually THEN got up and went over to the gentleman and told him that he should kick the crap out of him for talking to his son like that. Yes, kids learn from their parents and some parents should not procreate.

Also on another more recent Celebrity cruise, when I finally saw a child (on day 5), I finally realized that we hadn't heard or seen any children up to this point. It was a totally enjoyable cruise, except the formality of the dress code. I guess there is a tradeoff here. "Freestyle" (which I absolutely love) and the more traditional formal lines (which I do enjoy, but not as much as freestyle).

One last thought - Putting up with children on a cruise is still better than a good day in the office! I sit on my balcony and watch the rest of the world go by.

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Old September 29th, 2006, 11:54 AM
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First...let me say my boys are not perfect! But they are well mannered when we are in public or they will face the consquences! God did not put extra padding on our behinds for nothing! That being said, if parents weren't afraid of being turned into the police for abuse for giving their child a swat on the tush, maybe more parents would discpline their children. I do not beat my boys nor would I stand by and allow anyone else to do the same but my boys do receive a little love pat every now and then. It is either I (hubby too) raise my kids up to be good people or prision can do it. I prefer to do the hard work myself. I also don't step over unruly children. I ask them politely to move and if they don't I get out the mom voice and tell them to move. I dare any parent of unsupervised children to confront me too. I they do I have a few parenting tips for them! :o Like was stated in the original post I paid for my families cruise and should be able to enjoy it like anyone else. Anyway I will get off of my soapbox and let someone else have a say! Thank you to all of the parents that are trying to be parents and not buddies to their kids!
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Old September 29th, 2006, 02:50 PM
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We went on a cruise over New Years and were totaly blown away at how the parents just let their kids roam around. We went to a show on the ship and the parent's let their kids play around on the furniture like it was a jungle jim. It wasn't just one family either but several, However it was predominatly one racial mix. If you want to criuse without kids, stay away from the lines that encourage familys. Go right after school starts and after major holidays. The norm is the longer the cruise the fewer kids.
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Old September 29th, 2006, 04:45 PM
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Some great points there, so split yourself into a camp if you want. Those that can accept children around them that do the "things" they should or should not do in your head, or as an adult or parent....you can accept it as they are... just being children, doing what children do. Hey no matter what age you are now, you're kids may have made someone’s a life a misery at some point, and you did not know about it..

Or maybe you should find lines that do not attract "families" and do not have to Gripe about how life "used to be".... forgetting and ignoring what yours maybe did when young.

Really its that simple, be with alive and young people buzzing around you and take them them for what they are or wrap yourself into a line that deals only with a " I remember when people" attitude. Thats an old sad ship, dont want to be there

Me… I go for today and all it's warts and children, as some poor sod had to deal with me growing up, not nice, but I came out the other side….., I will always give other children the same courtesy.

Difference was in my day some, not all the children listened to advice from elders and some got the belt or punished for their actions.

So although I am appearing tolerant here, are this new breed of children really taking the piss, knowing they can get away with it. As we now have the "You can’t touch me" attitude that has come came into play? And I will take you to court etc etc etc ?????

Me… I got kicked up the A?? by my neighbors never mind my parents when caught doing wrong...and I knew I was doing wrong. And these new “children? in their own hearts do know that same "doing wrong" today, but as adult we are scared to react. And they lap it up.

That presents a major social problem today...no control, no punishment from peers out with the family and “wild cats? allowed to become even wilder because liberal “standards? say we as the fellow people living amongst them cannot react or act to what they place upon us as individuals.

Yes… let children be children, but not when their presence places an adult into a scenario of nearly making them ill and all the power appears to on the child’s side .

That’s society gone mad
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Old September 30th, 2006, 08:45 PM
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i'd like to remind you that all of you were children at one time and that you just wanted to have fun as well... oh and to Dave B, i dont think that the world revolves around me... but it sure seems that you do...
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Old September 30th, 2006, 10:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by artguy
i'd like to remind you that all of you were children at one time and that you just wanted to have fun as well... oh and to Dave B, i dont think that the world revolves around me... but it sure seems that you do...
I'm with you, artguy. You joined this thread with one factual comment: not all kids are like that. And that seemingly obvious truth lead to a 1000-word tirade.

I'm an old guy now but my experience with teens is that when treated as humans with respect, they respond in kind. Imagine.

Cheers, Aidan
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Old October 1st, 2006, 01:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aidan
Quote:
Originally Posted by artguy
i'd like to remind you that all of you were children at one time and that you just wanted to have fun as well... oh and to Dave B, i dont think that the world revolves around me... but it sure seems that you do...
I'm with you, artguy. You joined this thread with one factual comment: not all kids are like that. And that seemingly obvious truth lead to a 1000-word tirade.

I'm an old guy now but my experience with teens is that when treated as humans with respect, they respond in kind. Imagine.

Cheers, Aidan


thank you aidan, finally someone gets it we all just want to be treated with respect... 8)
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Old October 1st, 2006, 02:13 PM
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Respect is earned, it is not a right.
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Old October 1st, 2006, 02:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aidan
Quote:
Originally Posted by artguy
i'd like to remind you that all of you were children at one time and that you just wanted to have fun as well... oh and to Dave B, i dont think that the world revolves around me... but it sure seems that you do...
I'm with you, artguy. You joined this thread with one factual comment: not all kids are like that. And that seemingly obvious truth lead to a 1000-word tirade.

I'm an old guy now but my experience with teens is that when treated as humans with respect, they respond in kind. Imagine.

Cheers, Aidan
I imagine that Aidan you do not work as an inner city teacher, or for the Juvenile Justice system. My son does, and my cousins and other close relatives all work in the front lines of various Law Enforcement depts. We live in a major city....Your experience with teens, while valid for you, does not represent a large percentage of the national average!

Children ARE NOT the same and Teenagers ARE NOT the same as when we were young for anyone over the age of 35-40yrs.

The overwhelming FACTS do not support the theory that all is well with our youth.

When this precious belief system is challenged, I understand the need of many parents, grandparents to run to the defense of children and teens. But this emotional and sentimental reflex should not block out or negate some glaring societal changes.

What a growing group of children/teens are doing today...for example on cruise ships is mean spirited, NOT innocent fun. Perhaps we need to re-define what fun is: Let's see... is it?

1. Spitting up luggies in other passenger's drink glasses as they pass by?
2. Licking bread/buns and then putting them back in the bread bowl?
3. Throwing things off the top decks to passenger deck belows.. drinks, (glass included) food AND SPIT?
4. Tearing seat covers in the Theatre with sharp objects?
5. Writing on and damaging walls throughout the ship?
6. Kicking and banging game equipment in Teen area's to the point where it needs replacement?
7. Stealing equipment/games from Teen area's? (Celebrity had to close one teen area on the ship we were on)
8. Blocking off whole elevator sections while they play elevator games. Forcing older passengers to search for other elevators in other sections? (some could not manage stairs being in wheelchairs, scooters, etc.) and doing this specifically at meal time hours.

The above are just the things we have personally witnessed. There's more of course...but you get the point.

Because we are not personally suffering from hunger, does not mean that world hunger is not a problem...

Because we personally have a job, doesn't mean that unemployment is not a problem...

Because wayward children and teens are NOT within our personal experience does not mean there is not a growing problem.

So, while your reply sounds good, and feels emotionally warm and fuzzy...it doesn't really help, because it ignores facts...

Ignoring facts...ignoring growing evidence of problems doesn't make them go away...not this kind anyway!
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  #89 (permalink)  
Old October 1st, 2006, 03:36 PM
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Location: Planet Zorg
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Artguy, Adain, you go into into your world, I will remain in mine, why because I've seen it,done it, I know the other side. One day when you grow up and can see two sides to a scenario, instead of whats in your own heads.

Then there may be hope for you, until then 8). I aint arguing with children.,,,past that and done it with better and more intelligent.

Aidan, your now an old guy , maybe?... but a bit mixed up if you can ignore some children’s behavior or the lack of discipline we have in society today and just go for the “respect? angle.

I think you will find that most of your fellow adults, are willing to give that respect, but it appears for a large majority of children it seems to be one way.

And it was 412 words, not 1,000, you nearly had me there. Thought I had broken my own record.

And as for the world revolving around me, well actually it does, and there is nothing I can do to stop it revolving, so I just live on it.
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  #90 (permalink)  
Old October 1st, 2006, 03:59 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 566
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fieldmouse

Children ARE NOT the same and Teenagers ARE NOT the same as when we were young for anyone over the age of 35-40yrs.
Oh, I think they are. You might recall that in the 1930s teens robbed banks with machine guns. And in the 1860s teens raped and murdered at will, as a result of the the Civil conflict.

Humans don't change.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fieldmouse
The overwhelming FACTS do not support the theory that all is well with our youth.
Well, statistics say otherwise. Teen crime has been declining since the early 90s. Google FBI crime stats for that information.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fieldmouse
When this precious belief system is challenged . . . .
I think you should lose your attitude. We are adults having an adult discussion (I think).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fieldmouse
1. Spitting up luggies in other passenger's drink glasses as they pass by?
2. Licking bread/buns and then putting them back in the bread bowl?
3. Throwing things off the top decks to passenger deck belows.. drinks, (glass included) food AND SPIT?
4. Tearing seat covers in the Theatre with sharp objects?
5. Writing on and damaging walls throughout the ship?
6. Kicking and banging game equipment in Teen area's to the point where it needs replacement?
7. Stealing equipment/games from Teen area's? (Celebrity had to close one teen area on the ship we were on)
8. Blocking off whole elevator sections while they play elevator games. Forcing older passengers to search for other elevators in other sections? (some could not manage stairs being in wheelchairs, scooters, etc.) and doing this specifically at meal time hours..
All I can say is you've been on different cruises than me. I'm not denying people behave badly. But I'm very skeptical that there is some distinction between ages, which is the point of this thread.

Given that according to you cruising means spitting lugies, licking bread, spitting, tearing seat covers, vandalism, stealing, mob behavior ... why the heck would you ever go on a cruise?

I wonder if you are exaggerating?

Cheers, Aidan
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