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  #91 (permalink)  
Old October 1st, 2006, 05:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fieldmouse
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aidan
Quote:
Originally Posted by artguy
i'd like to remind you that all of you were children at one time and that you just wanted to have fun as well... oh and to Dave B, i dont think that the world revolves around me... but it sure seems that you do...
I'm with you, artguy. You joined this thread with one factual comment: not all kids are like that. And that seemingly obvious truth lead to a 1000-word tirade.

I'm an old guy now but my experience with teens is that when treated as humans with respect, they respond in kind. Imagine.

Cheers, Aidan
I imagine that Aidan you do not work as an inner city teacher, or for the Juvenile Justice system. My son does, and my cousins and other close relatives all work in the front lines of various Law Enforcement depts. We live in a major city....Your experience with teens, while valid for you, does not represent a large percentage of the national average!
I can not speak for the national average but I did work for community school district 11 in the Bronx NY before the districts were broken up. That district included 33 schools, grades from k to 12. My job included travel to each building and I still disagree with your point of view. And now to add to that, I also disagree with your idea of inner city schools being any worse than schools in the suburbs (which I have also worked at). I will say you may precive more problems because of a larger population, but from my point of view the % pretty much remain the same.

I believe that no two parents can raise a child alone, first chance a kid gets to wander away, they will. No matter how hard you try a child will see/hear something that you do not believe they should be exposed to. I believe that it takes a community to raise a child. Just something to think about next time you are ducking under a table hiding from a pair of parents.
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  #92 (permalink)  
Old October 1st, 2006, 10:07 PM
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this post is starting to get mean and its kind of sad the way adults view children... i have stated my point and can clearly see that adults still think that they have a power over children... i cannot change that. I will continue to cruise and be (hopefuly) considred polite and gracious to my fellow passengers. If only some adults would do that to...
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  #93 (permalink)  
Old October 2nd, 2006, 02:37 AM
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Aidan. Points well taken....

I guess it does look a little exaggerated with all the numbers and each incident lined up like that...sorry about that...but truely the incidents are not exaggerated and did occur, only they did NOT occur on one cruise...but over a series of seven cruises on three different cruise lines. The only cruise line we have not experience incidents concerning teens and unruly children have been on Holland America.

And you're right, after this last cruise to Alaska...we had to admit, the wind was taken out of our sails, and we did canceled our RCCI to Mexico. We LOVE cruising! But we were shocked and dismayed at the lack of parental control on this last trip to Alaska, it WAS really rough.

This of course doesn't mean we won't cruise again! We will and are...We are scheduled in December for Panama...but we just felt we needed time to re-group a little.

As for the 'mob' behavior?....ah yes, the elevator incidents...well, frankly I'd never thought of the kids acting like a 'mob', we thought of them more as groups of unruly, unsupervised teens, but perhaps you're right....they were sort of mobbing it up...

As for teen crime declining? Not in our community, or State. As per your suggestion, I did google crime stats...and to our dismay...we are HIGHER than the national average in Murder, rape, robbery, etc. and our teen crime rate IS HIGHER...Yikes!!!

So, as for facts, statics etc., we're looking at the same facts and figures and interpreting them differently because of our different life experiences, and the community we live and work in.

I will though stick with the premise I started with...all is not well with our youth. Society has changed and is changing. The fact that you can't see how much...unfortunetly shows how we have come to accept the abnormal as normal. We have forgotten the difference, and the shock factor is gone.
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Old October 2nd, 2006, 11:25 AM
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I have to admit this post has got me scared half to death to bring my kids on board. They are kids, so at times can be a tad rowdy, but for the most part they are good kids. I believe in my kids. I've tried my best to teach them right from wrong, but every once in a while, I'm still surprised when they step out of line when I know they know better.

Am I to understand that there are adults on board who will be upset because my children are on board? I mean I can understand the areas where they aren't supposed to be. If there are children there, I believe that is the parent's lack of supervision. But now I'm worried if I should even bring them with me to the formal dinners, etc. Are they that much of a burden on other passengers? I'm the first one to take my kids to the bathroom or to the car when I'm in a restaurant & they became unbearable. I don't hesitate to spank my kids, it didn't hurt me when I was young, it taught me to respect my mother & do as she said or else.

I can understand certain viewpoints as far as unruly children and that the parents should be responsible for their behavior. I'm just worried that kids in general are just plain not welcomed by some adults. If this is the case, I'm not only shocked, but worried that I'm going to inadvertently offend someone just by having them present. Of course on the other hand, I'm tempted to just say "Suck it up & deal with it. I paid just as much for my 2 little ones as you did to be here so get over yourself." That's not generally my attitude, but sometimes people just push the wrong buttons.
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  #95 (permalink)  
Old October 2nd, 2006, 12:10 PM
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Wow!
I have been away for awhile and look what this post has come to.
Can we re-focus a bit here folks? My gripe was fairly simple, if children are not allowed in lounges on land, why the heck are they allowed in them at sea?
If your child has x-box, ipods, water slides, teen clubs,and other means of entertainment, why is riding an elevator up and down still such an amusing thing to do?
Kids are great and it is nice that families can go on a cruise vacation. By and large, the kids I encounter are well-behaved. Somehow kids, like adults, seem to lose their ever-loving minds when they go on vacation.
I can't explain it, but you have all seen this type of thing happen. That is why I also wrote a gripe regarding adults.


We indeed are, the people our parents warned us about. 8)
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  #96 (permalink)  
Old October 2nd, 2006, 12:17 PM
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My comments were not intended to offend or discourage future cruisers like yourself. Cruising is still a great vacation choice...and looking back...overall, we've had a great time. (except for our Alaskan experience...which was kinda like the last straw on the camels back...at least for a while)

My intent was to comment and express some sincere concerns about some of the drama WE'VE experienced cruising with young teens and Children.

As you can see on these boards...we're only expressing our personal opinions...or commenting on our experiences, and there are those who adamantly disagree...which is ok too... I certainly don't take offense when someone disagrees with me...they are entitled.

I wouldn't take any of these discussions too too seriously...

Enjoy your cruise!
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  #97 (permalink)  
Old October 4th, 2006, 04:08 PM
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Fieldmouse….. don’t you start backing out of this...okay 8)

Okay people please read and understand that "ALL" people above only have an opinion on this, and for me, and others this is not a vendetta against children being on ship.

So can I cut too my chase or my point regarding some above….Here is the Chart count down.

And at #1 in the chart, adults that have brought up a family that go on a cruise, have a good time and show either as an adult or a child respect for others around them. You see them and appreciate them, and they have got the right social values!

At #2, okay the parents may be off and doing their own thing, and the children on their own are doing their own thing and are acting respectfully...they know the rules of social interaction. And they don’t infringe into others space or life

Then at #3, both the parents and the children are on this ship and going "Ya Hoo", because the parents taught no values or respect as they don’t have them, . so the kids run wild, and they as parents don’t care.

So if you are placing you as an adult and your family into #3...Then I hate you so much., because your value is “ We paid, so we can do?, that’s your motto.

If you are going for #,s 1 and 2...I thank you for being a person that has control of your family unit and has taught acceptability / responsibility.

But more and more I feel #3 is taking over, but then again that only works for them as people if the rest of us just lay down and accept them running over us.

And their other motto is "You can’t touch me", and the child is only reacting to what the parent taught them in the first place.

So I don’t target children just having a good time as long as their behavior is seen is as just that, its when their behavior steps over the mark of “SOCIAL ACCEPTANCE?.

Who deals with that, when the parents don’t care or sometimes encourage it.. That’s not the child’s fault.
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  #98 (permalink)  
Old October 4th, 2006, 04:30 PM
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I try to schedule my vacations when school is in. No cruising over spring break, holidays, or during the summer months. One bad experience over spring break was enough to break me. Kids in the adult pool, running up & down the hallways in the wee hours of the morning, and of course riding the elevators like they were at an amuesment park. I won't even discuss their actions at the buffet during lunch.
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  #99 (permalink)  
Old October 4th, 2006, 04:54 PM
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Default I just sailed Princess Diamond to Mexico...

Saw only a handful of kids the whole time. As we disembarked, I realized there were quite a few kids onboard, but they had been kept busy by their own activities director. I would take a dozen kids apiece for each of the miserable adults I encountered onboard - rude, obnoxious, demanding, egotistic, and totally self-absorbed.
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  #100 (permalink)  
Old October 4th, 2006, 05:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cheezz
Saw only a handful of kids the whole time. As we disembarked, I realized there were quite a few kids onboard, but they had been kept busy by their own activities director. I would take a dozen kids apiece for each of the miserable adults I encountered onboard - rude, obnoxious, demanding, egotistic, and totally self-absorbed.
We have yet to met any miserable, rude, obnoxious, demanding, egotistical and totally self-absorbed passengers on board. In fact, we've met some really nice people!

Our tablemates have been great...and on various land tours, we met interesting and helpful people from all over the world! Most anxious to share helpful hints and past cruising experiences.

Now the only time when we came close...was when everyone was standing in line waiting for the main dining room doors to open at dinner time. Everyone...and I mean everyone was intent on those doors!!! But even then, most passengers were smiling and laughing...To avoid the pushing, etc...we just wait a few minutes in one of the outer bar areas.

I'm sure that there must be cruise passengers out there that are our worst nightmere...but we haven't met them yet.
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  #101 (permalink)  
Old October 4th, 2006, 06:13 PM
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Default Miserable adults...

Oh, I agree - we met some of the most charming, wonderful people. We just seemed to have an inordinate amount of nasty people on this trip (i.e. in the cabins on each side of us) who insisted on smoking non-stop and blowing it in our face. I had never encountered this before as most people are nice if you approach them nicely -- these people just did not care one whit.

Oh well.... I'm about to book my next cruise as we speak, so let's hope for the best
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  #102 (permalink)  
Old October 5th, 2006, 05:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ruchaos
Ive been cruising for 10 years and what surprises me most is how parents allow their children to roam freely around the ship until all hours unattended. Young children, some preteen age, ya know and I can remember on our last cruise there were these packs of kids just roaming around, harassing the bartenders for Shirley Temples, etc...

I know. And it's these same "absent" parents that would make the biggest fuss and sue the pants off the cruiseline if their darlings got hurt or injured.
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  #103 (permalink)  
Old October 5th, 2006, 06:47 PM
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Default Even when the parent's are within arms-length...

I saw kids (on embarkation) that I thought were roaming free, when actually the parents were right there. They were tearing up and down the aisles, several times almost knocking down the waiters. The parents saw it all and didn't even blink. I couldn't figure if their brains were already on vacation, or if this was par for the course with them.

Again, fellow cruisers, all I can say is I'm adding "taser" to my packing list.
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  #104 (permalink)  
Old October 5th, 2006, 09:09 PM
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Default Re: Even when the parent's are within arms-length...

Quote:
Originally Posted by cheezz

Again, fellow cruisers, all I can say is I'm adding "taser" to my packing list.

LMAO!!!!!!!
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  #105 (permalink)  
Old October 6th, 2006, 10:39 AM
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When we cruise our kids eat with us in the dining room each night and it never fails that our dinner is interupted by people telling us how well behaived our kids are. Why would they expect otherwise? Children must obey their parents and why would a parent let his child misbehaive at dinner?
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  #106 (permalink)  
Old October 6th, 2006, 02:10 PM
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Default Wow - SO nice to hear a voice of reason in the wilderness!!!

Doesn't that just seem logical to you? It does to me!! One group of 5 adults were letting their kids fun like maniacs for 20 minutes. Finally, the grandmother couldn't stand it anymore, stood up, and read the kids the riot act. The mother glanced over then went back to her conversation. I was ready to give granny a gold star! What a sad state families are in nowadays, letting the kids even use cell phones at dinner. I've seen it all.

THANK YOU for being a good role model to your kids - they learn what they're taught.
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  #107 (permalink)  
Old October 6th, 2006, 04:41 PM
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Default Re: Wow - SO nice to hear a voice of reason in the wildernes

Quote:
Originally Posted by cheezz
What a sad state families are in nowadays, letting the kids even use cell phones at dinner.

THANK YOU for being a good role model to your kids - they learn what they're taught.

Ditto!!!!!!
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  #108 (permalink)  
Old October 7th, 2006, 07:24 PM
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Default Re: Even when the parent's are within arms-length...

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Originally Posted by Catnip
Quote:
Originally Posted by cheezz

Again, fellow cruisers, all I can say is I'm adding "taser" to my packing list.

LMAO!!!!!!!
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