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  #31 (permalink)  
Old October 25th, 2006, 03:13 PM
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And here I am....this is as I read all the above is a "cultural" awareness program that should be delivered by government.

I will back quote to a post above "But so many people have been able to go places -- Canada, Mexico, Caribbean islands -- without them"

These are not your country, some may have seen them as extensions of yours, but they aint. Grasp that nettle first. and then we can go on to reality.

Border control, the ability to determine the person presenting themself, and how that will be done (passport) accept it, live with it, its going to get tighter and the new passports may actually include DNA.

Me, no problem with that as I have nothing to hide or worries about "big brother"....but a whole lot to protect to maintain my way of life either personally or as a person within my "community" .

Get a passport.
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Old October 25th, 2006, 03:31 PM
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Ah, just as anticipated!
DBG adds a clarity to the issue that has been lacking.

DBG, I doubt Americans think Canada, Mexico, the Carribean islands are an extension of their country.

My point is that there are several countries in close proximity to the U.S. that have not historically required a passport.
I lived not too far from Canada for much of my life, and we thought nothing of going over the border. My daughter, who lived in San Diego for several years, used to go into Mexico all the time.
No passport required.
People get used to that type of relationship, if you will, with a neighboring country.

It's not that Americans think they have special privileges ... it's more that the protocol for entering these neighboring countries has been set for years -- and now it is changing ... well, it's supposed to be changing.

Thus, the confusion.
I got a passport well before I needed one.
I made sure my kids did too.
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  #33 (permalink)  
Old October 25th, 2006, 03:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fruitcake
Sounds like cut and run to me.

DBG should be weighing in soon ...
I presume that was aimed at me. However, since I have said nothing regrettable about Americans or anyone else, it was not a cut and run, but rather a plea to restore sanity to this thread. I do regret that the ONE Canadian who was insulting, is behaving like the 'rude Americans' that she seems to despise.
It is unfortunate, that when topics get heated as this one has, people respond to one post, when it may be several down the line that was the culprit. I too, get offended too easily and just MAY interpret statements with more punch than was actually intended. chances are , if we were all sitting around a table, hearing voice tones, watching facial expressions, listening to voice inflections, this would have remained more civil. With that, I am truly cutting out, as I have much too busy and full a life to spend any more time on message boards, unless I am looking for specific information or have a good answer to someone else's query. Have a nice day.
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Old October 25th, 2006, 03:47 PM
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I have a busy and full life too, but I am excellent at multi-tasking.

I did not find this thread heated at all.
I guess because it is a gripes forum, I expected some people to be griping.

For more factual/helpful information, as opposed to *opinion*, see most of the other forums.
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Old October 25th, 2006, 04:24 PM
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You don't want to travel?
Don't get a passport.
You want to travel?
Get a passport.
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  #36 (permalink)  
Old October 25th, 2006, 04:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bagologist
You don't want to travel?
Don't get a passport.
You want to travel?
Get a passport.
And therein lies the confusion.
You still can travel some places without one.

I don't think anyone here is advocating that people NOT get passports.
The OP was opining about cruise lines providing incentives so people who don't have passports would go out and obtain them.

And we went off from there.
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Old October 25th, 2006, 07:00 PM
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I like having a passport.

I feel like a world traveler with one... at any minute I could hop a plane or decided on a cruise and travel anywhere I want at a moments notice.

Of course this is just fantasy...built from watching too many old movies on TCM....but I still like the idea and when ever I get my passport out...that same feeling of adventure pops up!
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  #38 (permalink)  
Old October 26th, 2006, 04:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fruitcake
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bagologist
You don't want to travel?
Don't get a passport.
You want to travel?
Get a passport.
And therein lies the confusion.
You still can travel some places without one.

I don't think anyone here is advocating that people NOT get passports.
The OP was opining about cruise lines providing incentives so people who don't have passports would go out and obtain them.

And we went off from there.
Thank You Fruitcake,

The last thing that I wished to do when starting this thread was to bash anyones country or to state that you ought not to need a passport while traveling outside of the US (for us US residents).

It is difficult for the majority of US citizens to grasp the need of the passport while traveling abroad. If one were to be traveling to a country that required a passport to enter, lets use Russia for example, the average US citizen would march down to the local passport application station and apply without a fuss.

What must be rubbing everyone the wrong way in the US is "I didn't need a passport to enter Canada or Mexico yesterday why do I need one now?" I think that the government did a bad job of explaining that the passport requirement is not to enter Mexico but to re-enter the US. It is going to be your federal ID card. Having said that, once they set a date requiring passports they really screwed up by not sticking to it. "Must not really need it, after all if they keep backing up the date" is what is on he minds of those who have put off getting one.

The thread was started saying that the cruise line industry, a industry who's very business is to transport pax from one country to another for fun and profit, might could use this issue as a marketing tool to increase the market share of pax that are willing to apply and purchase a passport. I sorry if I have offended anyone with my poorly worded suggestion.

As Rodney King once said "Why can't we all just get along"

Joey
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  #39 (permalink)  
Old October 26th, 2006, 09:10 AM
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You are welcome, Joey!
And your posts have not been poorly worded. You write very well.

In this latest post you have captured the essence of the issue: the idea that US residents did not need passports for Canada and Mexico before ... and they do not understand why they will need one in the future.

I am thinking of the little old lady in Toledo who enjoys traveling to Windsor to visit the casinos, or the 20-somethings in San Diego who like crossing the border for the beaches or the nightlife in Rosarito.
Suddenly they need a passport to travel where they've gone so many times without one.

You also make a valid point in that the government has not done a good job in educating citizens on the new passport requirements, then compounded this by not sticking to the deadline.
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  #40 (permalink)  
Old October 26th, 2006, 09:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joey Troutt

What must be rubbing everyone the wrong way in the US is "I didn't need a passport to enter Canada or Mexico yesterday why do I need one now?" I think that the government did a bad job of explaining that the passport requirement is not to enter Mexico but to re-enter the US. It is going to be your federal ID card. Having said that, once they set a date requiring passports they really screwed up by not sticking to it. "Must not really need it, after all if they keep backing up the date" is what is on he minds of those who have put off getting one.


Joey
You are right it is to re-enter your own Country that you need a passport...many people think it is to enter other Countries,
in a lot of cases you do need a passport.
But the Govenment did not think it through....what about those people that just want to go to Mexico or Canada for the day.
They are now trying to immplement an Pass card system for those people.

But I do not agree that the cruiselines should give anything to people as incentive to get a passport. What about all those PAX that went and got THEIR passorts willing.
They are being penalized in that case.
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  #41 (permalink)  
Old October 26th, 2006, 11:54 AM
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Kitty 2,

I agree about the pass card may be an easier approach to the issue than a full fledged passport but there is still going to be a cost involved with the pass card. Also the passcard is not going to be universal (won't be accepted in all countries)

Will it be fair if the Canadian government decides to forgo the pass card and requires its citizens to possess a passport while those in the US can get by with a cheaper passcard.

I don't know if there is a "fair" way to do it. I do know that if the US government decides to impliment the pass card system that there will be hell to pay when some of those who purchase the pass card find out that they are gonna have to purchase a passport in addition to be admitted to many countries that won't reconize the pass card.

IMO the US government dropped the ball by not sticking to a policy that was voted on and passed by the Congress as needed to control those who wish to enter/re-enter the US. Now, we US citizens, are gonna have to listen to these same aurguments again in 2009 (if not sooner) and yes were gonna have to pay for overtime for those persons to process the passport/pass card when that day arrives for those who have waited again the last minute to apply hoping that it gets put off again.

As for the cruise industry, they have been know to give "free towels and bathrobes, upgrades, ect. to get pax to book early so the OBC would just be another marketing tool........

Oh well just something to gripe about

Joey
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  #42 (permalink)  
Old October 26th, 2006, 12:01 PM
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Get a passport!!! We all shoud have one!!!

For the Canadian contingent, what is the current status of annexing the Turks & Caicos? The US stopped imperial expansion in the early part of the last century and has slowly been giving territories their freedom. Now, Canada is doing the opposite just so the snowbirds have somewhere they can call home.

Needless to say, although I dearly love Canada and (most of) the people of Canada, I clearly don't care for Canadians (or anyoned else) using the derogatory term "ugly American" without any basis in fact.
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  #43 (permalink)  
Old October 26th, 2006, 12:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc
Get a passport!!! We all shoud have one!!!

For the Canadian contingent, what is the current status of annexing the Turks & Caicos? The US stopped imperial expansion in the early part of the last century and has slowly been giving territories their freedom. Now, Canada is doing the opposite just so the snowbirds have somewhere they can call home.

Needless to say, although I dearly love Canada and (most of) the people of Canada, I clearly don't care for Canadians (or anyoned else) using the derogatory term "ugly American" without any basis in fact.
Thank you, Marc!
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  #44 (permalink)  
Old October 26th, 2006, 02:08 PM
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KD, dont you dare cut out on us, take a deep breath, come back into the water that is getting a bit hot right now, but you chill for a bit, you're a good person and I dont want to see you go.

Folks I think the basic premise of this is the confusion, in "do I need a passport and right now today". That is not our doing but agency's that cannot make up their minds,, so they go for the "grey area" and everyone is left confused...Why do we pay these people?

Here is my line, I totally respect that "individuals" have been able in the past to move from place to place without one (passport). But the world has changed and with that accept that having a passport "should" be the only way to travel outside your own country borders,,,yes tough to accept, but it is today's reality and needed if we attempt to preserve what we have.

Yet another DBG throw away line...think of the bigger picture and how you could help it by doing one thing and owning a passport.
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  #45 (permalink)  
Old October 26th, 2006, 04:48 PM
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I doubt anyone reading this thread does not have a passport.

So people are preaching to the choir.
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  #46 (permalink)  
Old October 26th, 2006, 04:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joey Troutt
Kitty 2,

I agree about the pass card may be an easier approach to the issue than a full fledged passport but there is still going to be a cost involved with the pass card. Also the passcard is not going to be universal (won't be accepted in all countries)

Joey
From the U.S. website
"Under the proposed implementation plan, the following documents will be acceptable to fulfill document requirements:

* U.S. Passport: U.S. citizens may present a valid U.S. passport when traveling via air between the United States and Canada, Mexico, Central and South America, the Caribbean, and Bermuda, and may also use a U.S. passport when traveling via sea and land borders (including ferry crossings).
* The Passport Card (also referred to as the PASS Card): This limited use passport in card format is currently under development and will be available for use for travel only via land or sea (including ferries) between the U.S. and Canada, Mexico, the Caribbean, and Bermuda. Similar in size to a credit card, it will fit easily into a wallet."



As for freebies from the cruiselines they do not discriminate between PAX

If they give incentives to people that do not have Passports and nothing to those that do have passports it is unfair.
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  #47 (permalink)  
Old October 26th, 2006, 05:08 PM
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Life is unfair.

I've gotten invited to two VIP parties thrown by the captain on two of my cruises. Most of the other pax did not get invited.
Fair?
There was an open bar, an string quartet, lovely hors d'oeuvres.

Cruise lines don't treat all pax equally. Never have, never will.
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  #48 (permalink)  
Old October 26th, 2006, 07:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fruitcake
Life in unfair.
OHHH! the grammer Police will get you!
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  #49 (permalink)  
Old October 26th, 2006, 09:11 PM
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Good thing that there are no grammer police patroling this thread as I would have been before the judge a long time ago

Both kitty2 and fruitcake are right in your statements. I don't believe that there isn't anyone who reads this thread that doesn't have a passport so lets all humm a few bars.

And as for your statement Kitty, the cruise lines try not to treat pax unfairly but then again it does happen with the past guest parties and things such as that. Having said that, as it has been said before in this thread, the cruise lines aren't going to give anything to help ease the mess that they have helped to create. But your post of the pass card system for "land and sea travel" still is going to come back and bite the cruise industry somewhere down the road. There is no provision in the system if you have to re-enter by air. Humans, being as they are, will have to blame someone so the cruise industry will bear the blunt of the backlash.....
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Old October 26th, 2006, 09:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joey Troutt
the cruise lines aren't going to give anything to help ease the mess that they have helped to create. But your post of the pass card system for "land and sea travel" still is going to come back and bite the cruise industry somewhere down the road. There is no provision in the system if you have to re-enter by air. Humans, being as they are, will have to blame someone so the cruise industry will bear the blunt of the backlash.....
I am not sure I understand your post???

As I understand it ...it is the U.S. Government that now requires Passports to enter the U.S.A. not the cruiselines.
Correct me if I am wrong.

Many people in border towns shop or work on the other side so the Pass card will help those people that cross the border regularly without the need of a Passport.
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Old October 27th, 2006, 08:14 AM
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Kitty,

Your now on the right track to seeing the confussion with the passport issue. After Jan 8 2007 if you re-enter the US through the air you will be required to show a valid passport.

A prime example will be Vancouver BC. Let's say you take a Alaska cruise that leaves out of Vancouver, now this is new to me as I haven't done this so bear with me, you fly into Vancouver with your ship tags already on your luggage. If you do not leave the international terminal area and proceed direct to your transfer bus to the ship you won't have to pass thru Canadaian customs. You do the return to Vancouver and fly back to the states upon your arrival back into the US you WILL have to show your passport to re-enter as your flight began outside of the US.

Were you to fly into Sea-Tac and travel in a bus to the ship do the turn around, bus back to Sea-Tac fly back home you will not need a passport.
The pass card that your refering to is not good for air travel. Herein lies the confussion......

Yes it will help those who live close to the boarders but then it just becomes a money issue. How long will a pass card be good for? How much will it cost? What do you have to do to obtain one? These are all issues yet to be decided. I for one am glad that I don't have to deal with it cause I would have a bunch of folks mad at me, cause I would have stuck to the first dead line and let the chips fall where they may.........
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Old October 27th, 2006, 10:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joey Troutt
Kitty,

Were you to fly into Sea-Tac and travel in a bus to the ship do the turn around, bus back to Sea-Tac fly back home you will not need a passport.
The pass card that your refering to is not good for air travel. Herein lies the confussion......

..
I was not confused about the Pass Card as it is only going to be for LAND based border crossings much like the NEXUS pass is now only I think the new Pass card will require photos and I am not sure the NEXUS does.

I do think that you will need to show a passport/I.D. flying INTO Vancouver at some point.
We go through U.S. immigration at the Toronto airport and MUST have our I.D. before allowed on the flight.

Anyway...the point is as other have posted ..you will need a passport sooner or later to return to your Country so just buck -up and get one!
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Old October 27th, 2006, 10:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kitty2
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fruitcake
Life in unfair.
OHHH! the grammer Police will get you!
Thanks for reading my post so closely!
The correction has been done.

Actually, it was a typo, not a grammatical error.
There is a difference.

If I had said "Life are unfair" it would be grammatical.
But by hitting one incorrect letter -- an "n" instead of an "s" -- I made a typo.

It's good to know that people are reading posts so carefully, and I shall make sure I do the same!!!
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Old October 27th, 2006, 11:45 AM
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It's good to know that people are reading posts so carefully, and I shall make sure I do the same!!![/quote]

Fruitcake: Nor to carefully please
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Old October 27th, 2006, 12:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fieldmouse
It's good to know that people are reading posts so carefully, and I shall make sure I do the same!!!
Fruitcake: Nor to carefully please [/quote]

Not to worry ... that's my day job!
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Old October 27th, 2006, 01:58 PM
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Only two things to say, as having read above I've lost this thread, as it is about scenarios and politics that I cannot comment on.

Joey thanks for the heads up and a reality.

PS What the hell is a PAX?
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Old October 27th, 2006, 03:20 PM
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In Latin, it means peace.

But on cruise message boards, it's an abbreviation for "passengers."

Since I doubt most of us are fluent in Latin, I would interpret "pax" as passengers all of the time.

Peace be with you.
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Old October 28th, 2006, 01:53 PM
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And also with you, what a stupid expression "Pax" when talking about people, why not just say steerage
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Old October 28th, 2006, 07:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidBgood
And also with you, what a stupid expression "Pax" when talking about people, why not just say steerage
OK...I'm easy...'steerage' it is!
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Old October 30th, 2006, 12:12 PM
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The internet lends itself to abbreviations/shortcuts.
Then each message board has its own abbreviations.

So when you're on a cruising-relted board, you read HAL and know it means Holland American Line.
Or X = Celebrity.

And pax = passengers.
Docs = documents.

Just our own lingo that develops. No biggie.
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