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  #31 (permalink)  
Old November 15th, 2006, 05:37 AM
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I agree with those that say we should have different 'types' of cruises for different 'types' of people and for different occasions.

If a normally quite casual person was going on a honeymoon cruise, or something, they may wish to book something more formal.

If a normally formal businessman wanted to take his family away on a cruise, he might book something more casual.

If you're going to book a cruise, book it intending to comply with the expectations the cruise line has, otherwise you'll make your own cruise less enjoyable. Besides, it's respectful to bear in mind that the Maitre D' and any other staff are only doing their job. They're not there to stop you enjoying yourself, but they try to keep people in line with the ideal of the cruise.

If you don't like it, book a different cruise!

(Just to clarify, we should still offer respect to those different to us, this is not an excuse to segregate, or to look down on people. We're all equal, and you probably look daft to them too.)
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Old November 15th, 2006, 12:54 PM
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I like the "mish mash" of different dress codes on different nights. I like to get "gussied up" a couple of nights, but not every one.
Marty
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Old November 15th, 2006, 12:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by babe ruth
All, please consult your cruise documents and brochures for you particular line's definition of "formal" for their ship. All I have seen (and I've seen many in all price ranges) say that formal (for men) mean tux, dinner jacket, or dark suit. So, if one wants to be within the rules of the line, any of these will do.

But to ensure that one does not only minimally comply, but "fits in" as well, the individual line cruise boards can be of great help in this regard.

Thanks,
Richard
Exactly. Consult your cruise line.
Here is what Holland America states on its Web site:

On festive formal evenings, women usually wear cocktail dresses or gowns and men usually wear business suits or tuxedos. There are approximately two formal nights per week. (Gentlemen: Although business suits or tuxedos are suggested attire for formal evenings, they are certainly not required. You are welcome to wear a jacket and tie on formal nights.)



Looks like HAL's *formal* is less *formal* than some others.
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Old November 15th, 2006, 02:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by colorcrazie
I like the "mish mash" of different dress codes on different nights. I like to get "gussied up" a couple of nights, but not every one.
Marty
I don't do formal every night, but I change every night for dinner and always wear something nice. The surroundings just don't feel "casual" to me and I actually LIKE dressing up a bit!

My husband and son agree with you, Marty. They would love nothing more than shorts every night, but they also comply with the "no shorts or t shirts at night" rule without a lot of fuss. the "mish mash" does make it a bit easier for most folks.

dorothy
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Old November 16th, 2006, 12:20 PM
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Casual dress seems to be the growing 'norm', even in some businesses, BUT there are still a few of us out there that still cling to having 'business', formal and 'casual' wear in their wardrobes.

We like to dress up, but because of economics, (read, money or lack of!) we don't get to go many places were we CAN dress up in formal or even informal wear.

When our friends have parties, it's usually informal, a backyard bar-b-que or 'come as you are' style.

IF we go out...it's usually after work, shopping or a 'PLEASE...I'm just to tired to cook tonight' dinner, and that's definately a 'come as you are' wear!

So, for us...a semi-formal and formal night on a cruise is FUN! A chance for my husband to see that I'm still a hottie...or that at least...I can clean up nice
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  #36 (permalink)  
Old November 16th, 2006, 12:44 PM
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When, in a earlier post, I referred to a "mish-mash" of dress codes, I wasn't talking about the fact that some guests seem to dress "out of code". (I've seen this reported on boards, but have never seen it in person.)

Rather, I was talking about the fact that the vast majority of cruises and sailings have three dress codes: casual, informal, and formal. This is what I meant by a "mish-mash." As I wouldn't ever want to dress "out of code", this "mish-mash" of three dress codes on a given cruise simply means that I have to pack more, and have more difficulties with the airlines' recent 50 lb. per piece of checked luggage limit.

On the other hand, if a sailing had only ONE evening dress code (be it formal or casual), I would be able to pack fewer items of clothing, and this would be much easier for me. I know. I've been on some "single dress code" sailings. They were casual, but the same would be true if they had been all formal.

Way back in the days of those formal and festive crossings of 100 or so years ago, of which the original poster wrote, I have pictures of porters carrying steamer trunks up the gangway with the guests! No size and weight limits on luggage back then. And plenty of available porterage. Big difference. These days, I've been hard pressed to find a porter to hire in many airports and ships' ports. The airlines wouldn't think of transporting something as large and heavy as those old steamer trunks. It's a different, less gracious environment for travelers now, and I feel that ships' dress codes must eventually change to accomodate this.

Thanks,
Richard
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Old November 16th, 2006, 01:07 PM
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I'd be happy if they dropped the "informal" and stayed with a couple formal nights, the rest casual.

I like the variety.
But I think the word "informal" confuses a lot of people.
They don't realize that informal = cocktail dresses on some cruise lines.
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Old November 16th, 2006, 02:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fruitcake
I'd be happy if they dropped the "informal" and stayed with a couple formal nights, the rest casual.

I like the variety.
But I think the word "informal" confuses a lot of people.They don't realize that informal = cocktail dresses on some cruise lines.
You are right. To a lot of people, "formal" = cocktail dress and "informal" = casual dress! Don't reckin' they know no better
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  #39 (permalink)  
Old November 16th, 2006, 04:40 PM
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This is actually all a reflection on today's lfe and "people expectations" and it is not just confined to the expectations of fellow passengers on a cruise ship.

Why?

On a personal basis and the security job that I do, then I as a person I have to "mix and match" to suit my clients.

With some, I know that I have to turn up "business like" as that is how they expect to see me., me turning up in my best suit , shirt and tie.. If not I would lose it.

Sorry but they as a "company" would not associate themself to me, if I did not present me to them as a "suit"

But for other clients . I know I have to do the same thing in reverse, as they expect it, being cool, your own person, no agenda, free thinking. So that means "totally" casual in dress

Same goes for lines, present yourself to others around you that have the same agenda or expectation, dont just pick a line, pick one that you will be comfortable cruising with and its people
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Old November 16th, 2006, 05:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fruitcake

I like the variety.
But I think the word "informal" confuses a lot of people.
They don't realize that informal = cocktail dresses on some cruise lines.
YUP! Before we pack...I look up 'pictures' of what the cruise lines are referring to when they say, Informal...formal, just to be sure.
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  #41 (permalink)  
Old November 17th, 2006, 04:09 AM
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Babe Ruth!

Where the h*ll have you been these past couple of years?! You and I used to have some great exchanges, and then I was out of action for 2 years. It’s good to see you back in action!

David B. Good!

We’re going to have to agree to disagree on this subject.

What you call “morningwear? I call “formalwear.? I used to work in the fashion industry, and I can tell you that here in the States, and according to the sartorical guides that I’ve read, that formal dress is: white tie, white vest, tails, and top hat. Formal dress is to be worn for any evening event that calls for formal dress. Those events are: New Year’s Eve, presidential events, cruises, and any other events that call for formalwear. Things may be different in the U.K., but I offer into evidence Tony Blair’s dress this week. He was addressing Parliament, on his way to an evening event, and he was dressed in white tie, white vest, and tails. He didn’t have a top hat on, though, I grant you.

So let me ask you all: Formal means formal, does it not? And if formal means formal, and many of you seem to prefer formal dress on formal evenings, is it so much to ask that the occasion be treated with the respect that it’s due?

And I’ll tell you what. As a man, there is nothing as intriguing and as intoxicating as a lady in a little black dress. We’ve gone seriously astray in a world where ladies aren’t in little black dresses…

You can call me old-fashioned. You can call me out-of-date. You can call me what you like. And not one of you can argue with a lady in a little black dress. Not one of you can argue with a gentleman in a tuxedo.

As a man, I’ll take my James Bond’s in tuxedos, and my ladies in little black dresses.

I’ll take it on the formal side, thank you very much!

Dean
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  #42 (permalink)  
Old November 17th, 2006, 12:06 PM
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Hi, Dean:

All cruise lines we've sailed have included their own definition of "formal" in their brochures and docs. And every line defines it the same. For men, tux or dark suit. And on the cruises we've taken, 99% of the men wear one or the other. The other 1% have worn nice dressy sports jackets, dress trousers, white shirt, and tie. In many parts of the US, "formal" has come to mean a tux for the men. I don't know where the cruise lines got the idea that a dark suit and tie is "formal" as it clearly is not -- but that is the code set by the lines themselves when they define "formal." The only difference among lines (budget to lux lines) is the ratio of men wearing tuxes to men wearing dark suit and tie. Even among the lux lines, there is a difference. On regent, for example, a man will be perfectly in place with half or more of his peers in a dark suit and tie on formal night. On Silversea, a much smaller percent of men opt for dark suits, and a much higher percent opt for tuxes. So when I cruise Silversea, I always wear my tux. Not always so on Regent.

The idea (my idea at least) is driven by my desire to dress to "fit in" with the majority of other guests. Happpily, I've never been exposed to fellow guests in jeans or shorts on formal night. I'd not be happy!

My major point here is that the cruise lines should "think outside the box" and give us sailings that would offer us a variety of dress code options -- instead of the current situation where 95% of sailings have the same three dress codes. An all formal cruise? Sure, and I might well opt for that with a northern European itinerary. An all casual cruise? Sometimes, I might opt for that for tropical itineraries. And what few times I've had a chioce, I have so opted. Frankly, I feel like a fool wearing a tux in the Caribbean!

Thanks,
Rihard
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Old November 17th, 2006, 02:20 PM
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Hey I aint a "fashion" policeman regarding all above and if some people do formal their way,,fine. But Dean you just agreed with me.

"Not one of you can argue with a gentleman in a tuxedo"

So what were you saying again if a tux is not formal to dine in
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Old November 19th, 2006, 04:08 AM
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Maybe u r right. I expressed to Carnival that I think they need to make a few changes. What they've got is nice but I would like to see a romantic adult only deck. For example a deck with pool and jacuzzis with cabanas and elegant lighting. Also have bar with waiters serving u a well. Oh yeah what about a massage table area and musicians with piano or sax. Relaxing elegant music. I am looking for that resort feel.
I noticed a large amount of unused deck space. Not to mentioned most of the lounges are often closed during the day. It supposed to be the fun ship but for whom? the teen club is so nice and was always closed. I know the teens were frustrated.
As i was saying earlier, Carnival needs to add some class to their ship. I am tired of watching those play in the pool scorching on the Lido pool deck. Also change the look of the outside decor. The wood on deck to me is an eyesore. It looks cheap. Wouldn't be nice if there was some type corked flooring.
I think Carnival add these changes w/o boosting the cost outragously.

thanx
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Old November 19th, 2006, 12:48 PM
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Maybe...but then if you started to add to much class...well it just wouldn't be Carnival anymore!
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  #46 (permalink)  
Old November 19th, 2006, 01:24 PM
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Well, this thread is about dress codes on all the lines, and is not particular to Carnival. I've never cruised Carnival. The closest I've come has been to cruise Royal Caribbean and NCL in its "pre Freestyle" days. On those cruises, I never observed anybody dressed very far "out of code" as each code was described in docs and brochure.

Basically, the best rule is, if you book a given cruise, to read the docs and brochure as to the dress codes and the line's definition of each code -- and then pack and dress accordingly.

Thanks,
Richard
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Old November 20th, 2006, 02:23 AM
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David B. Good,

I think we agree in principle about what's formal dress, but vary on the exact definition.

By all that I've read and experienced, formalwear is white tie, white vest, top hat, and tails. A tuxedo by definition is semi-formal wear.

I believe that cruising dress has become too casual -- and on the other hand, I live in the real world. I understand that not everyone on every cruise is going to be dressed in formalwear for dinner.

So how about semi-formal? Semi-formal looks good, right? A sharp, well-presented tuxedo is perfectly acceptable to me on formal night.

See -- I'm willing to compromise!

Dean
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Old November 20th, 2006, 11:51 AM
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Dean,

Your semi-formal is way too formal for me. On "formal" nights, I will continue to wear a dark suit, and on semi-formal nights I will wear a pair of dress slacks and a nice collared shirt. This may not be acceptable to you, but on most cruise lines it is acceptable to the majority of the passengers.

If you love to wear fancy duds and are comfortable really dressed up, feel free to wear them every night of the cruise. Most of us will admire your dress, but we will not emulate you, preferring comfort to restrictive clothing.

Live and let live, and you will live longer.
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Old November 20th, 2006, 03:39 PM
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And so am I Dean, you know what?... this little thread got me reading and again I will put up my hands and say in a lot aspects you are right.

The dress attire you describe is actually "the" formal attire for formal.

But in reality, it does not happen in "normal" circumstance.

Hey as you know I respect the dress code presented and abide, but I also totally respect Paul's opinion regarding his personal presentation to others in dress. Just give me people that look as if they made an effort and are good company to dine with.

You know what, forget dress for a moment. If I could "buy" a cruise and a table for twenty then I could fill it from the people I talk to on this board, and that I have never met.

Forget dress code that is what it is all about, as I know I am talking to decent people that can "talk".

ps If I win the lottery, your invited
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Old November 21st, 2006, 02:20 AM
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David,

You know, I have to give you guys in the U.K. credit, as you always seem to be well-dressed for the occasion.

Here in the States, we’ve been in a “casual dress? phase for awhile now, with casual Fridays at work, and so on. Things really got casual beginning in the late ‘90’s with the Dot.com boom. Employees would arrive to work in t-shirts, shorts, and flip-flops.

I occasionally see the kids walking home from school, and they look absolutely slovenly – and I know their families, and know that they can certainly afford decent clothes for the kids. If I dressed like that for school, my parents wouldn’t have let me out of the house.

And this may be a separate gripe, but why don’t ladies wear dresses any more? I can’t remember the last time I saw a lady in a dress. And whatever happened to ladies with long hair?!

Phew!!

I think I got it all out of my system now! It feels good to vent now and then!

And if you ever win the lottery, I’ll take you up on your offer!

Dean
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Old November 21st, 2006, 09:58 AM
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hey Dean look for me, i will be wearing a very dressy ruby red cocktail dress
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Old November 21st, 2006, 12:43 PM
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And I'll be the one with the long blonde hair.
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Old November 21st, 2006, 06:34 PM
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Default My two cents

Personally, I believe that if the same food was offered in the alternative dining areas, that people would not show up to the formal dining rooms on formal nights in less than formal wear. Unfortunately, let's say formal night is the evening of lobster and prime rib and THE ONLY place you can get it is in the formal dining room, those who choose not to participate in dressing up or those who cannot afford to dress up either have to go in what they can afford to dress themselves in or they have to choose not to eat the meal.

I love dressing up on formal nights because I love to look amazing in a dress and love to buy the formal pictures. I don't come from a lot of money so I saved up to get the formal wear I have and waited for prom seasons to end and for the dresses to go on sale. But, I also know that if I did not have a formal dress and I paid for the same meals that everyone else paid for in their cruise package and the only way I could get some savory lobster was to eat in the formal dining room in whatever I had to wear, I would be there.

The moral of this story:

If the cruise lines offered the exact same meal course in another more casual dining room on formal nights, you wouldn't find people underdressed in the formal dining room. I can almost guarantee this. As uncomfortable as it is for those who are dressed up to see people under dressed and think of it as being rude.... imagine being the person in a tshirt and shorts while everyone else is dressed to the nines. It is not comfortable for either side. It's like having your parents drive you to school in a beat up volkwagen while everyone elses parents have hired chauffers to drive their kids to school in stretch limos. You might not feel like the kid in the volkswagen should be attending this school but it is just as important that the kid in the volkwagen gets a good education as the kid in the limo. And, it is just as important to the average Joe who spent the same amount of money you did on your cruise to be able to eat the fancy dinners. The average Joe worked ten times as hard to make the amount of money the cruise costed and in my book deserves that meal probably a whole lot more than the other people.

I am about to go on my 7th cruise and while I dress up for every formal night, I never look down on people who don't because I don't know their situation and what I do know is that if they want the good food that's being offered that night, the formal dining rooms are the only place to get it. I was actually very sick one cruise on formal evening and called room service and requested they bring me a lobster from the dining room. They said they would not because I would have to attend the formal dining services to get my meal. My girlfriend went down for me, ordered the meal to go and brought it to the room for me. That's just my two cents. :-)
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Old November 22nd, 2006, 11:58 AM
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italianfemmy: Noble sentiments...but the FACTS don't support the premise that 'people can't afford formal wear'.

IF a person can afford a cruise...that is booked months in advance... and most cruises as far as a year or more in advance...then they have time to find 'formal wear', somewhere! No one has said it has to be expensive or extreme!

Cruisers have months to look in Consignment shops, Second hand stores (e.g. Goodwill) and all the other discount stores (Wal-Mart, Ross etc.) for simple elegant wear.

Now, if they don't want to, because it's below them to shop at their local Consignment shops, etc...then who's the snob?

My husband and I have found beautiful formal wear at various second hand stores...a few with price tags still on them...never worn. My husband recently got a Tux shirt with lovely black opal buttons at the Tux shop for cheap cheap! They were bringing in the new styles and just wanted to dump last years stuff.

And there is always the option to borrow from friends...

Cruising is a special event, and one with the heighten security we have now days, just doesn't happen at the 'drop of the hat'...A cruise is a planned vacation that is discussed and re-discussed with either the booked cruise line or a TA. "Should we get to the Port by car or airplane?" "What about excursions, which ones should we book?" "Whats the weather going to be like?" And, of course the most important question, "What should I wear?"

Saying formal wear is expensive and crying 'too poor' is a silly unfounded 'cope out'.
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Old November 22nd, 2006, 12:01 PM
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Once again, Fieldmouse, you summed it up perfectly!! Exactly what I was thinking
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Old November 22nd, 2006, 02:30 PM
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Default Here we go again

Okay, to be honest with you, out of the 6 cruises I have been on, only one of them have I ever booked with more than one months notice. Perhaps, you are the planning type and you plan your stuff earlier. When I look at a cruise a year out, it is almost never affordable and I don't know what is going to be going on in my life at that moment, so I never book that far in advance.

Most Average Joes making let's say barely minimum wage don't. In fact, most of them book within the last month when the prices drop ridiculously. For example, on December 4th I am sailing on a 5 day Mexican cruise aboard Carnival's Holiday. Two months ago, the price was 589 per person. I just booked it about a week and a half ago and got it for 209 per person.

Like I said before, I ALWAYS dress the part for formal night. It makes me feel sexy, it makes me feel glamorous, it makes me feel like a woman and it is my night to shine. I am just saying that if the cruise ships offered the same dining course on the night of formal evening in another place other than the main dining rooms, then people who chose not to get formalwear or honest to god could not afford formal wear would have other options and still be able to have the same dining course.

I once met a couple at my table and they did not come dressed in formal wear and after the head waiter made some jokes about it, the woman began to cry. I asked her if she was okay and she told me that two weeks before their cruise, their house had burned down and they had lost everything in the house and had spent all the money they had trying to buy new clothes that they could wear everyday and a new place to live and that she was so upset because it was her first cruise and she was looking forward to dressing up and being beautiful like all of the other women. She just so happened to be close enough to my size that on the 2nd formal night ( 7 night cruise ), I had her meet me in my stateroom and I let her wear another dress I had brought with me. I always bring 2 or 3 different ones because I am one of those women that something can look great on me on Monday and horrible on me on Tuesday.

We never know what someone else's situation is. I will never judge someone for what type of clothing they show up wearing for formal night. You may excuse your behavior any way you see fit, but it shall not make my opinions falter. Should that woman not have come to dinner because her house burned down and destroyed everything they had worked so hard for and replacing a home and buying clothes that could be worn 7 days a week were more important than buying the dress of her dreams?

And if you dare say, " Well it didn't have to be the dress of her dreams but she could have bought something in the formal category" then shame on you! She should not have been thinking about formal wear. She should have been thinking about replacing things for her family and her two kids. And, if she had bought herself a dress to wear before replacing the home and clothes for her children, etc, then I would instead be saying, " Shame on her."
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Old November 22nd, 2006, 03:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by italianfemmy
Okay, to be honest with you, out of the 6 cruises I have been on, only one of them have I ever booked with more than one months notice. Perhaps, you are the planning type and you plan your stuff earlier. When I look at a cruise a year out, it is almost never affordable and I don't know what is going to be going on in my life at that moment, so I never book that far in advance.

Most Average Joes making let's say barely minimum wage don't. In fact, most of them book within the last month when the prices drop ridiculously. For example, on December 4th I am sailing on a 5 day Mexican cruise aboard Carnival's Holiday. Two months ago, the price was 589 per person. I just booked it about a week and a half ago and got it for 209 per person.
Typically, cruise prices are LOWER a year out and go HIGHER as the sailing date nears.
I always book ours at least 9 months in advance and I watch the prices.
Yes, there are some last-minute deals for those who want to wait and are not particular about the ship, room location or itinerary.

But then, unless you can drive to the port, there is always the air fare issue. The days of last-minute air fare deals are long gone. Planes are going out full. You have to book in advance to get the best deals.


Quote:
She should not have been thinking about formal wear. She should have been thinking about replacing things for her family and her two kids. And, if she had bought herself a dress to wear before replacing the home and clothes for her children, etc, then I would instead be saying, " Shame on her."
Well, if you are thinking that way ... shouldn't she have canceled the cruise and used the money for her children and home? Wouldn't she have had trip insurance?
Don't forget, the cost of the cruise is a lot more than just what you pay to get on the ship.

I don't think the above posters are being judgmental.
They're just saying to follow the dress code if you go on a cruise.
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  #58 (permalink)  
Old November 22nd, 2006, 04:07 PM
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italianfemmy, you are my sort of person. You got it spot on with your first post. Honest and open intelligent thought regarding this debate.

To some of you, yeah we all do it different and with personal expectation on ship, and there are are so many quotes above that I could rip apart but will not, just think about it.

But I will quote this

"IF a person can afford a cruise...that is booked months in advance... and most cruises as far as a year or more in advance...then they have time to find 'formal wear', somewhere! No one has said it has to be expensive or extreme!"

The basis of being able to afford a cruise has nothing to do with it, I could pick up a weeks cruise for less than a good tux, so again the justification for all that thought process is .

See there are two camps and maybe more on this, but some are missing the point.

Some people do not feel they have to turn up in second hand clothes or put themself into a position of buying a "suit" that they more than likely never wear again.

Thats not a disrespect....its reality., as it is a minority imposing an ideal on their fellow passengers to make them as individuals happy in their cruise... because the line said....but WILL never enforce. The lines know their demographic and will not or ever upset anyone within it. Read the brochures these are recommendations and NEVER compulsory on bulk lines.

I dress up if it suits me, thats it botttom line
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Old November 22nd, 2006, 04:11 PM
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Default Re: Here we go again

Quote:
Originally Posted by italianfemmy

I once met a couple at my table and they did not come dressed in formal wear and after the head waiter made some jokes about it, the woman began to cry. I asked her if she was okay and she told me that two weeks before their cruise, their house had burned down and they had lost everything in the house and had spent all the money they had trying to buy new clothes that they could wear everyday and a new place to live and that she was so upset because it was her first cruise and she was looking forward to dressing up and being beautiful like all of the other women. She just so happened to be close enough to my size that on the 2nd formal night ( 7 night cruise ), I had her meet me in my stateroom and I let her wear another dress I had brought with me. I always bring 2 or 3 different ones because I am one of those women that something can look great on me on Monday and horrible on me on Tuesday.

We never know what someone else's situation is. I will never judge someone for what type of clothing they show up wearing for formal night. You may excuse your behavior any way you see fit, but it shall not make my opinions falter. Should that woman not have come to dinner because her house burned down and destroyed everything they had worked so hard for and replacing a home and buying clothes that could be worn 7 days a week were more important than buying the dress of her dreams?

And if you dare say, " Well it didn't have to be the dress of her dreams but she could have bought something in the formal category" then shame on you! She should not have been thinking about formal wear. She should have been thinking about replacing things for her family and her two kids. And, if she had bought herself a dress to wear before replacing the home and clothes for her children, etc, then I would instead be saying, " Shame on her."
I cannot even IMAGINE going on a cruise if my home had just burned down two weeks before a cruise! Talk about screwed up priorities. Give me a break. Regardless, this type of story is 1 in a million. The majority of people who CHOOSE not to follow the suggested dress code do not do so because of poverty--they are part of the "it's my vacation and I'll do what I want" club. They want all of the perks that the people who participate get but without putting any effort into it on their part. As fieldmouse said, there are PLENTY of places that offer very, very affordable clothing suitable for formal night on a cruise ship. If they don't want to participate then they should choose the cruiselines that do not have formal nights.
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Old November 22nd, 2006, 04:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidBgood
See there are two camps and maybe more on this, but some are missing the point.

I dress up if it suits me, thats it botttom line

So, if one doesn't agree with you, they're "missing the point"...interesting.

And your final statement confirms my previous post--people ignore the suggested attire, for the most part, because it *suits* them.
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