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Old November 19th, 2006, 03:40 AM
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Default Glory needs handsanitizer at buffet line

Last year, on the Caribbean Princess I was impressed to see hand sanitizer onthe wall in the buffet line. When in Sept on the Glory I was looking for the handsanitizer on the wall and was surprised and disappointed. I had to carry my own every where I went. There are viruses reported more often now. You would think Carnival would get with the program and install hand ssanitizers. We all know most people don't was their hands even chefs and waiters. Handsanitizers r a big help against viruses on ships.

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Old November 19th, 2006, 02:03 PM
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I have to agree 100%, on the Golden Princes in June / July they were everywhere and with staff presenting themself in front of you with a dispenser if you just walked passed the dispensing station.

It takes two seconds to do, and it sure made me feel good to see my fellow pasengers take part.

It should be mandatory in all places that the "public" dine at buffet, and that means all ships, hotels and restaurants.

Better two seconds cleansing your hands., than two days in your bed or the toilet
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Old November 20th, 2006, 02:32 PM
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Now even more so with the latest outbreak of the virus on Carnival.
700 passengers sick...and 5 crew.

CNN said some passengers brought it back on the ship after shore leave in Rome!
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Old November 21st, 2006, 12:50 PM
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The most common virus on cruise ships is the Norwalk virus, which causes that old 24 hour stomach flu. But, Norwalk is very common everywhere that people gather...schools, hospitals, businesses, restaraunts, etc., etc. Like the cold virus, it is contagious even before first symptoms (sp?) appear. It's just that people have more contact with each other on cruises than most places. BUT, hand sanitizers only kill bacteria, not viruses. You need to actually wash your hands to try and remove viruses...that or bleach! Sanitizes may make you feel better psychologically, but don't do any good in avoiding the Norwalk.
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Old November 21st, 2006, 02:35 PM
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I know what you are saying Marty, but in this case it is a bacteria and not a virus. And something that come's from a person cleaning their "A" and then not washing their hands..its bacteria.

So the hand cleansers do work, as its what they do is kill the bacteria.

A ship cannot escort you into your cabin toilet or the one's that are public on ship and then make you wash your hands after doing toilet...but what they can do is present a "bacteria" killing dispenser in food areas, that will try to protect its passengers from the dirty habits of some passengers on their ship.

So folks please dont get confused with some people that may have came on a ship with a flu or an other "airborn" infection (spread by sneezing / coughing). These dispensers are there to make up for the physical dirty habits of others around you.

Think about it, they should mandatory in any place that the person in front of you in line, and "picking up" buffet food.

As they may have just been five minutes before been to the toilet and walked out, not washed their hands and using the same hands to pick up food. maybe put it back and choose again.... before you get to it......
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Old November 22nd, 2006, 12:08 PM
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Norwalk/Norovirus is a virus and, as such, is not killed by the antibacterial gels. On HAL they also use a cleaner that is anti-VIRAL, not just antibacterial, on the solid surfaces of the ships. But, the only way to avoid Norwalk is good, old-fashioned handwashing. Using warm/hot water and soap, and washing as long as it takes to sing "Happy Birthday" is the best and safest way to avoid catching/spreading it. I still use the purell dispensers every chance I get to add extra protection from other germs and bacteria, but that alone won't stop me from catching the norovirus.
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Old November 22nd, 2006, 12:33 PM
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After reading this and some of the other threads regarding the virus, I have to ask. It sounds like a lot of talk is around this getting spread through the buffet line. Is this true or no? Do you think the people who did not get sick just ate in the dining room and didn't touch their faces at any time in the cruise without a good hand washing? Or is this an airborne virus that you get when your just too close to someone who has it? Just wondering.
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Old November 22nd, 2006, 12:42 PM
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good question but no, it's a virus that you get from direct contact. We were on the Westerdam in 11/05 under code red conditions and ate in both the lido and the main dining room. You were not allowed to serve yourself in the lido and there were not any salt&pepper shakers on the table. In the dining room there weren't roll baskets, salt& pepper shakers, etc on the tables. Everything was served to you everywhere. The gift shop was roped off so that you could only enter in one place and a staffer was there requiring everyone to use purell before entering. In the jewelry section you pointed to what you wanted to see and it was displayed but you couldn't touch it. I would think the virus could also pass from chair arms and menus in the dining room, so we were very diligent about washing our hands with soap/water every chance we got. Thankfully, no one in our group contracted the virus.
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Old November 22nd, 2006, 12:44 PM
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Desdemona is right --> it is a virus.
Purell and such don't have an effect on it.

As far as buffet lines: When I was aboard a HAL ship last year we were under Code Red because there were cases of the virus onboard our sailing as well as the previous one.

Pax were not allowed to touch anything in the buffet line.
Even the trays and utensils were handed out to each passenger by a gloved crew member.
Now anyone familiar with HAL's Lido restaurants knows that much of the food is not left out for pax to scoop up or whatever. So there is a level of control there that is not on some other lines.
But the things that HAL does let pax serve for themselves -- pizza, the salad bar and the taco bar -- were off limits during Code Red. Crew members were posted at those places and handed out the food.

No salt shakers on tables, no bread baskets.
You couldn't even pour your own coffee.

But it worked and the code was lifted before the end of the cruise.

Wash your hands. Hot water and soap.
And try not to touch handrails when walking up stairs, etc.
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Old November 22nd, 2006, 01:15 PM
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From the Centers for Disease Control:

Noroviruses are a group of viruses that cause the “stomach flu,� or gastroenteritis, in people. The term norovirus was recently approved as the official name for this group of viruses. Several other names have been used for noroviruses, including:

Norwalk-like viruses
caliciviruses
small round structured viruses.

Viruses are very different from bacteria and parasites, some of which can cause illnesses similar to norovirus infection. Like all viral infections, noroviruses are not affected by treatment with antibiotics, and cannot grow outside of a person’s body.[/b]
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Old November 22nd, 2006, 01:58 PM
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Thank you. Sounds like you can get this anywhere. Any buffet and/or work place. I guess it only makes the news because of a "captive" audience.
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Old November 22nd, 2006, 02:39 PM
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I went on a 7 day Royal Caribbean cruise this past April and when you walked into the room where the food was, there was staff set up on both sides of the entrance doors with huge tubs of hand sanitizer on a dispensing pole and you HAD TO clean your hands before they would permit you into the dining area. A lot of people got really upset about this and I thought it was a brilliant idea. If they enforce something, then everyone has to do it, they cannot hold the cruise ship liable because they were too filthy to wash their own hands before touching utensils that other people would be touching. And, on my comment card I told them I was very proud of them. It was consistent. Even on the midnight buffets.. it did not matter where you went.. if there was food involved, it was mandatory that you stop at the two people that were blocking the path to the food at get hand sanitizer and clean your hands. It takes two seconds to clean your hands and I would rather be made to do this and have to listen to people gripe about it than to not be made to do this and spend two days of my cruise in my room sick.

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Old November 22nd, 2006, 03:24 PM
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So RCI and Princess are doing it as standard without a Code Red need.

But who else does it as normal practice in eating areas? Its the sort of question that makes me decide which lines I want to cruise on!
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Old November 22nd, 2006, 03:38 PM
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HAL has hand sanitizer available in the Lido but no enforcers standing around to make sure you use it.

Under the code red the places they enforced cleaning one's hands: before entering the dining room and the gift shops.
I don't recall it being mandatory for eating in the Lido.

But as the CDC points out, the norovirus can be spread through the food handlers. No amount of sanitizer is going to help you if you eat contaminated food.

The CDC recommends that food handlers do not return to work until a few days after they've recovered from the virus. I wonder how many ships abide by that recommendation?
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Old November 22nd, 2006, 03:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dina
Thank you. Sounds like you can get this anywhere. Any buffet and/or work place. I guess it only makes the news because of a "captive" audience.
Exactly!

You hit the nail on the head.
When it goes around at a day-care facility, for example, people just say "oh there's a bug going around" or mistakenly call it the flu.

But when it is a ship full of sick passengers -- because they are a "captive audience" as you noted -- it draws much more attention.

A school with a high rate of absenteeism due to a "bug" -- pretty routine.
A bunch of people on a ship all getting sick at once -- grabs attention.
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Old November 22nd, 2006, 04:21 PM
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Okay, this is all about risk management, and that means how can I control this risk and what may happen potentially.

So food handlers the Captain / Hotel Manager will deal with that and with their staff (hopefully)

When it comes to passengers they can only deal with their own ship presented hygeine standards, and from that the ship can only present an option in dispensers etc as a means of reducing the risk that is outwith their control, not a solution, but risk management that may reduce the potential risk to ship.

I would be very surprised if the vast majority of such breakouts came from crew food handlers, as they work under laws and hygeine conditions, unlike the unsupervised passengers
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Old November 22nd, 2006, 04:26 PM
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From my understanding, a lot of breakouts come from food handlers.
Don't forget, a large number of crew also come down with the virus when it circulates aboard ship.

And think of the ratio of supervisors to crew members. Only so much can be supervised.

On report I read from the CDC surmises that the reason the virus stays aboard a ship from cruise to cruise is -- tada -- the infected crew.
I also discussed this at length with a hotel manager on the HAL ship I was sailing on, and he confirmed this.
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Old November 22nd, 2006, 07:01 PM
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This is one of the main reasons my hubbby and myself do NOT do buffets at all. I am not saying everyone is "dirty" to the sense of not washing hands but, there are alot of people that pick up a piece of fruit with there hands and then decide nope dont want that one and chose a different one. I have witnessed people eat as they go through the lines. Yuck!!
I do have one question though, what is the purpose of the anti bacterial gel, if it does not kill bacteria. I realize norwalk or whatever is a virus but, how would washing hands with hot soapy water clean when the sanitizer is supose to work if you do not have the availability to wash your hands? I do both but when I am out shopping and stuff I use it before and after using my cart say grocery shopping.
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Old November 23rd, 2006, 03:24 PM
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Hi angel, a virus which is airborn moves from one person to another through sneezing. coughing, kissing or close contact. So even if I happened to sneeze on the handle of your grocery trolly before you used it, and then handle it, you will not get the virus as its dead by that time.

On the other hand, if I went to the supermarket toilet, did toilet and did not wash my hands and go back to my trolly, then my hands would leave a bacteria on the trolly handles that you may pick up when you use it next.

All you have to do is, touch the handle, then put wipe your mouth with your hands...that bacteria now in your system.

So in public places these can be doors. handles, food tongs or the food its self and bacteria will sit there ready to jump to the next person.
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Old November 23rd, 2006, 07:13 PM
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A couple of things to think about regarding santizers:

1) They only sanitize for as long as they it is wet. Once it dries in roughly 15 seconds you are no longer protected. So it's not a cure all - use it before you go in the dining room and you will be protected for the rest of the evening.

2) Sanitizers do not clean your hands. They may remove bacteria, but the dirt is till there. So if you don't wash your hands after going to the bathroom, you will still have it on your hands even if you sanitize.

Personally I think it is the state of your immune system that determines if you get sick or not and using sanitizers isn't going to prevent it if your immune system is low (unless of course you use it every 15 seconds).

Brenda --> who prefers old fashioned soap and water
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Old November 24th, 2006, 01:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AmazingAngel
This is one of the main reasons my hubbby and myself do NOT do buffets at all. I am not saying everyone is "dirty" to the sense of not washing hands but, there are alot of people that pick up a piece of fruit with there hands and then decide nope dont want that one and chose a different one. I have witnessed people eat as they go through the lines. Yuck!!
I do have one question though, what is the purpose of the anti bacterial gel, if it does not kill bacteria. I realize norwalk or whatever is a virus but, how would washing hands with hot soapy water clean when the sanitizer is supose to work if you do not have the availability to wash your hands? I do both but when I am out shopping and stuff I use it before and after using my cart say grocery shopping.
Angel, the norovirus is not airborne.

Here is what the Centers for Disease Control say about how the virus spreads:

* eating food or drinking liquids that are contaminated with norovirus;

* touching surfaces or objects contaminated with norovirus, and then placing their hand in their mouth;

* having direct contact with another person who is infected and showing symptoms (for example, when caring for someone with illness, or sharing foods or eating utensils with someone who is ill).

While avoiding the buffet line might help, be aware that the food served in the dining room could also be infected by the food handlers.

The anti-bacterial gel does kill bacteria, but not a virus.
I am not sure why the cruise lines dispense anti-bacterial when norovirus is aboard, unless it's to provide some sort of comfort to passengers that "something" is being done.

The best thing to do is to wash your hands with hot, soapy water.
This should get rid of anything you may have picked up ... the "stuff" that could, once it gets into your system, give you norovirus.

It's better to go to the CDC Web site to read the details. That is, if you're not squeamish!
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Old November 24th, 2006, 04:04 PM
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Just a thought on ship food handlers, and given that I have never been outwith the "passenger areas" on any ship. But I've seen plenty of tv docs about "life on ship" below the decks and read reports.

My understanding is that at a point these new "situations" and illness started to happen on ship, and from that "they" the industry changed the hygeine laws for ships (self regulation)...for all food handlers, and that they must wear disposable latex gloves when touching or preparing food.

That's why today, I place the blame on the passengers and not the food handlers in recent times, prior to that yes I would agree.

I just cant see a food handler going to do toilet wearing and wiping with rubber gloves on Sorry a disgusting thought, but think about..
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Old December 3rd, 2006, 05:25 PM
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Default Hand Sanitizers On Carnival Cruise Ships

I don't know if all Carnival Cruise ships have hand sanitzer dispensers throughout the ship. Carnival Liberty as of now, does have hand sanitizers throughout the ship. I was supposed to be on the 11/19 cruise on the Liberty but was changed to 11/21 because of the major Norwalk outbreak.
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Old December 6th, 2006, 11:08 AM
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When we're on the ship, we do our best to only use the restooms in our stateroom, and also if there are servers availble, to have them serve us the food (let them handle the big serving spoons!) to avoid further unnecessary contact.

We spend too much money and time on our vacations to end up sick!!
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Old December 6th, 2006, 02:20 PM
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Wando said
Quote:
Personally I think it is the state of your immune system that determines if you get sick or not and using sanitizers isn't going to prevent it if your immune system is low (unless of course you use it every 15 seconds).

I think she said it here. The state of your immune sytem. I never get sick even when every one else at work is sick. I have always eaten food off of the floor and eaten some other things that may have not been sanitary I think that helps to build up your immune system. Also nicotine and alcohol combine to ward off a lot of germs. This is true! Regular exercise that raises your body tempature is good also.

Our last cruise (Enchantment Nov '06) they had the hand sanitizers at the entrance to Windjammer but nowhere else. It was an odd globe with a motion senser that squirted some in your hands.
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Old December 7th, 2006, 02:55 PM
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DTW, the picture does not show it, but have you still got that six pack 8)

For those the dont know Dave the Wave, he is my bud, and for a man in his sixties, he looks incredible .

Plus you stick enough "buckets of beer" down you neck to be immune from anything on a ship

So good to see you again

Take care
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Old December 7th, 2006, 05:35 PM
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Dave always puts his food on the floor before eating??? Hmmm...

Whatever trips your trigger!!
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Old February 20th, 2007, 07:40 PM
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Were recently on Mercury to the MR and there were hand sanitizers almost EVERYWHERE--every food venue, public restroom and many places in between.
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Old February 21st, 2007, 01:05 PM
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Pearl has them everywhere also with staff reminding you to use it as you enter any dining facility.
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Old March 22nd, 2007, 02:42 PM
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I caught the norovius at disney in December, it was terriable, you vomit and have dierriea for 48 hours then it just goes away, but for the 2 days you feel like your going to die. There is really nothing you can do to stop it you just have let it take its course and keep yourself hydrated.
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