Go Back   CruiseMates Cruise Community and Forums > Practical Advice > Travel Gripes!
Register Forgot Password?

Travel Gripes! Gripe about cruises or getting to one.(airlines, taxis)

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old March 3rd, 2008, 01:08 AM
Cruisebunny7's Avatar
Senior Member
Cruise Maniac
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Michigan
Posts: 208
Default Scrapping History

I know it would happen eventually. Everything comes to inevitable end, but not like this. I hate NCL for what they have done to the Norway, inevitably what they WILL do to the Independence, and more than likely the United States as well.

They tossed the Norway like last week's chinese, the ship that basically made NCL who they are (or think they are) today. No apology to the cruising public, no explanation for thier actions, nothing. They simply sent her away, while running with thier tail between thier legs. They are hiding behind thier new builds, thier "free style" way of cruising and this deal with Apollo.

Certainly looks like the Indy is headed for the same fate as well as the Big U. As I said before, I know it happens to them all eventually, I know 30 years from now the Voyager of the Seas will be on that beach. But at least NCL could explain thier actions. They could at least come out with a statement instead of "sneaking" around with these ships. I know I personally will not be sailing with NCL anytime soon, if they scrap the Big U I will never sail on them, and will advise others to do the same.

I know my small actions will probably do nothing in the big picture. I had to let it out, I can't stand watching another country butcher history. It will be hell if they butcher the Big U. the last ocean liner we OWN, and a BIG part of OUR history.

Go ahead you crazy NCL supporters and agrue with me, but I am just saying they need to grow some male parts and explain themselves.
__________________

Read and post cruise reviews






Booked :razz:
NCL Sun - November 2011
Disney Dream - December 2012 *Honeymoon*


Cruised
Monarch OTS - June 2010
Carnival Triumph - January 2010
Carnival Glory - April 2007
Carnival Inspiration - July 2006
NCL Star - April 2003
Carnival Sensation - April 1998
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
  #2 (permalink)  
Old March 3rd, 2008, 06:23 AM
Paul Motter's Avatar
Administrator
Admiral
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: in my office!
Posts: 10,878
Send a message via AIM to Paul Motter
Default

While I agree with you in principle - both ships were found to have been constructed with large amounts of asbestos. Restoring these ships would have been as expensive as building new ones, but they would not have had nearly the sales potential or public appeal as new ships. Plus, working with asnestos tese days is considered VERY dangerous.

The state of Hawaii would not even allow the Independence to stop there on its way to India, and even Guam turned it away. No doubt, finding people to work on the ship would have been impossible or way too expensive.

I am sure they had a number of other problems as well. It is sad, but just did not make sense economically to keep them.
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old March 3rd, 2008, 08:57 AM
Cruisebunny7's Avatar
Senior Member
Cruise Maniac
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Michigan
Posts: 208
Default

The Hawaii incident was a rumor, if the ship is so dangerous then how could she of been harbored in San Deigo for so long? Abestos is still in many buildings around the world, I know it is dangerous and will kill you eventually, but so will your microwave if you are that worried about it.

I disagree completely with public appeal. New cruise ships these days suck, they are all cookie cutter replicas of each other, they have no character. Espically NCL ships, they are all carbon copies of each other, like what the rest of the crusing industry is doing. However, NCL had the chance to restore these amazing ships. You honestly would not of sailed on the restored Big U if you had the opportunity? I know avid cruisers would leap at the opportunity, I know I would.
__________________

Read and post cruise reviews






Booked :razz:
NCL Sun - November 2011
Disney Dream - December 2012 *Honeymoon*


Cruised
Monarch OTS - June 2010
Carnival Triumph - January 2010
Carnival Glory - April 2007
Carnival Inspiration - July 2006
NCL Star - April 2003
Carnival Sensation - April 1998
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old March 3rd, 2008, 12:32 PM
Paul Motter's Avatar
Administrator
Admiral
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: in my office!
Posts: 10,878
Send a message via AIM to Paul Motter
Default

I am not sure what Big U is - do you mean the SS United States? I definitely would have liked to have seen her, but I also understand that regulations for safety at sea have changed a great deal in the last few years.

Here is an article about some people who were going to try to save the Independence if she stopped in Hawaii, but it says NCL did not plan to stop there. I do not know how that turned out.

http://www.kitv.com/news/15361623/detail.html
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old March 3rd, 2008, 12:35 PM
Paul Motter's Avatar
Administrator
Admiral
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: in my office!
Posts: 10,878
Send a message via AIM to Paul Motter
Default

FYI: http://www.mvariety.com/?module=disp...26&format=html

This article says the ship was refused entry to Hawaii.

.... KITV News in Hawaii reported that the tug ship was headed to Guam, towing the SS Independence.

Activist and former senator Hope Cristobal has asked the Guam Environmental Protection Agency to stop both ships from coming anywhere near Guam.

"The ship was refused entry into the Hawaii by the State of Hawaii EPA because it poses too much health risk. Now, it is being towed toward Guam. We have reason to be very concerned," Cristobal said.
.....
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old March 3rd, 2008, 01:17 PM
rinker250's Avatar
Senior Member
Admiral
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Northwest
Posts: 2,881
Default

I sailed on the United States twice.

Not so sure she's gonna be scrapped.

Interesting reading:

http://ssunitedstatesconservancy.org/History.html
__________________
Dan
Peace through superior firepower.
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old March 3rd, 2008, 02:10 PM
Paul Motter's Avatar
Administrator
Admiral
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: in my office!
Posts: 10,878
Send a message via AIM to Paul Motter
Default

I have heard various rumors about plans for her. I do think the last one I read implied NCL did not plan to make her into a cruiser, but I don't recall why.

Sadly, the last of the true liners are rapidly disappearing. NCL's sister line Orient still has the Marco Polo, but it is set to disappear soon, also.

That, along with QE2, will be gone after 2008. And they are the last liners in service for US-based companies that I can think of. Too bad.
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old March 3rd, 2008, 02:13 PM
rinker250's Avatar
Senior Member
Admiral
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Northwest
Posts: 2,881
Default

It's inevitable....the propulsion systems on the old steamers are almost obsolete.
Shafts and rudders are being replaced by Izopods.

And boilers? The US Navy just dropped the curtain on our last conventional carrier
__________________
Dan
Peace through superior firepower.
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old March 3rd, 2008, 08:22 PM
mehawk's Avatar
Senior Member
Admiral
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Houston aka Space City, Texas, USA
Posts: 9,687
Default

Yahoo just ran a video story about the Busting Beach.
__________________
Michael

Cruised more times than I can remember.

Good people sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

Courage and perserverance have a magical talisman; before which difficulties disappear and obstacles vanish into the air.

Pick your company wisely! Hang around people who are going to help you become all God created you to be.
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old March 3rd, 2008, 08:37 PM
misguidedangel's Avatar
Senior Member
Admiral
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Posts: 1,670
Send a message via ICQ to misguidedangel
Default

The ships after so many years at sea would not be safe because of how they were built. Eventually, all ships will meet their end at the scrapyards.

The Queen Mary and QE2 are fortunate that have/will be turned into permanently moored hotel. It is a shame that some of the notable ships end up in India torn apart section by section.
__________________




1991 Holiday
2007 Victory & Triumph
2008 Conquest & Liberty
2009 Valor, Freedom, and Splendor
2010 Glory and Liberty
2011 Glory

I gotta go where it's warm.....

Over 40 victim of fate.....
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old March 4th, 2008, 07:51 AM
DougR.'s Avatar
Senior Member
Admiral
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Erial, New Jersey
Posts: 3,310
Default

Time marches on and there is little one can do about it. What are the owners supposed to do about ships that are no longer useful or operable? Throw endless amounts of money into them becuase they are historic? The cruise lines are in business to make money. Maintaing a mothballed fleet costs plenty. Some, like the "Queens" will find a second life as a hotel, most won't. It is just a fact of life. Consider baseball, Yankee Stadium is as historic an icon as they come. Next year it wll be a pile of rubble...and so it goes.
__________________
Doug




Explorer of the Seas October 2013
Caribbean Princess July 2006, May 2010 & November 2012
Monarch of the Seas November 2008
Crown Princess November 2007
Celebrity Zenith November 2005
Enchantment of the Seas August 2004
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old March 4th, 2008, 04:37 PM
richstacy's Avatar
Senior Member
Admiral
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Denver Colorado, USA
Posts: 1,413
Default

a langett,
I hear what you are saying and I sympathize with it to a degree -- I'm a traditionalist and I love history, especially the history of the sea, just as you do. But in terms of mechanical things, these ships are truly ancient things. No ship lasts forever. Steam turbines are very expensive to run compared to modern diesel electrics, and as other s have pointed out, they are filled with asbestos and other dangerous materials.

All good things must come to an end. Another of these ancient vessels, the QE2, will soon make her last voyage. There is no stopping time, no retarding progress. I greatly admired and loved my Dad's '56 Buick Roadmaster -- but I'm glad I have a far superior car to drive today!

Nor do I agree with you that: "New cruise ships these days suck, they are all cookie cutter replicas of each other, they have no character."

That may be your opinion, but in my opinion, it is simply not true. Some new ships are no more than floating amusement parks, designed to appeal to a young and in my opinion somewhat air-headed crowd who require perpetual amusement to survive. But not all by any means.

Holland America ships, Crystal ships, and Princess ships all have rich woods, fine interiors clean seaworthy lines, all teak decks and wonderful traditional features as do those of many other lines. Have yo sailed on any of these ships?

With all due respect, a langett, we must all be willing to embrace the present, and even the future. Otherwise, we risk being left in the road, wailing and crying in the dust of the past as the world passes us by.
__________________
RichStacy
Landlocked in Denver, but cruisin every chance we get.

Polynesia, Carib. '86
Cr. Odyssey, Scandinavia, '91, 30 Day S Pac. 2002
Crystal Harm, Aust., N.Z., '94
Royal Odyssey, AK,'96
Old Cr. Pr. Canal, '97
RCCL, Carib, 1998
Volendam, Car, 2000
Ryndam, 35 day S. Am., Antarctica, '03
Is. Pr., Canal, 2004
Statendam, 34 day China, Japan, AK '06
Cr.Pr., Carib. 08
Eurodam, Atlantic, Med. '10
Golden Princess
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old March 4th, 2008, 05:23 PM
Senior Member
Captain
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 946
Default

One of the problems is that there are a bunch of tax incentives for restoring an historic building -- a hotel for example. This helps offset the cost. But there are no tax incentives as far as I know for restoring a historical hotel THAT FLOATS. If you have ever done an EXTENSIVE remodel on your house or another type of building, you may have found out that this costs MORE than building new from scratch. It is the same with ships, only more so as you've got more obsolete mechanicals to deal with. And since there are no tax incentives for ship owners to do this, they simply won't. And that's a shame.
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old March 5th, 2008, 03:08 PM
Mean Dean's Avatar
Senior Member
Admiral
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 2,280
Default

Actually Dan, I think the U.S. Navy will always need a conventional carrier around. Japan has a no-nuclear policy, and any U.S. carrier home-ported there will have to be conventional.

Dean
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old March 5th, 2008, 03:38 PM
richstacy's Avatar
Senior Member
Admiral
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Denver Colorado, USA
Posts: 1,413
Default

I believe it is the weapons Japan objects to, not the propulsion system. All our carriers will be nuclear powered. That doesn't offend the Japanese, they generate nuclear power in lots of new plants (unlike us). In fact, I am given to understand that Japan is the only place you can get a nuclear reactor containment vessel constructed at present.

As for their dislike of nuclear weapons, all our carriers have them. If they don't like it, fine, we have no need to base carriers (or nuke missile subs) there.
__________________
RichStacy
Landlocked in Denver, but cruisin every chance we get.

Polynesia, Carib. '86
Cr. Odyssey, Scandinavia, '91, 30 Day S Pac. 2002
Crystal Harm, Aust., N.Z., '94
Royal Odyssey, AK,'96
Old Cr. Pr. Canal, '97
RCCL, Carib, 1998
Volendam, Car, 2000
Ryndam, 35 day S. Am., Antarctica, '03
Is. Pr., Canal, 2004
Statendam, 34 day China, Japan, AK '06
Cr.Pr., Carib. 08
Eurodam, Atlantic, Med. '10
Golden Princess
Reply With Quote
  #16 (permalink)  
Old March 5th, 2008, 04:08 PM
DayvidB's Avatar
Senior Member
Admiral
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 1,019
Default

I love things that are classic and a "representation" of that time, including older cars. But personally I could not afford the maintenance costs to have that old car, it really would be a personal luxury. No doubt the ship owners think the same.

Bring on the new build type and today’s Health and Safety standards is my main opinion, but my second opinion is maybe they should be using that same technology to look at their market.

Why does this “technology? seem only to be driven towards today’s "MEGA" in size ships and driven towards high population on board?

For a lot of folks that don’t work, especially from those of us that helped originally make their fortune, made cruising a vacation to the mass public. The sad thing is what we also did was give direction to them towards the mass market cruising we see today .
I would adore ships that were near "replicas" of what went before the 130,000 ton bulks or monsters we see today, clean and safe to the passenger and the environment, but still had that intimate restaurant feel, compared to dining in a shopping mall. Both may give good service, but it’s different and feels different.

Use the same technology to build smaller and more “personal? ships without having to take on the “premium? price tag.

There is a market there, we are all getting older and with age expect different on a ship than we did when we had children running our ankles and first went cruising.

It’s an amazing switch in social attitude, a vacation that was once seen not so long ago as for the “older person?. But due to advertising, social placement and ship building, we are now in bulk, one size and shape fits all. Personally I don’t get that.
Reply With Quote
  #17 (permalink)  
Old March 5th, 2008, 04:18 PM
richstacy's Avatar
Senior Member
Admiral
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Denver Colorado, USA
Posts: 1,413
Default

David B
Holland America has some very nice, new, much smaller traditional ships that you would like very much. Beautiful ships with walk around teak promenades, rich woods, and art. No mistaking them for shopping malls or amusement parks, and in the 50-60,000 ton range.
__________________
RichStacy
Landlocked in Denver, but cruisin every chance we get.

Polynesia, Carib. '86
Cr. Odyssey, Scandinavia, '91, 30 Day S Pac. 2002
Crystal Harm, Aust., N.Z., '94
Royal Odyssey, AK,'96
Old Cr. Pr. Canal, '97
RCCL, Carib, 1998
Volendam, Car, 2000
Ryndam, 35 day S. Am., Antarctica, '03
Is. Pr., Canal, 2004
Statendam, 34 day China, Japan, AK '06
Cr.Pr., Carib. 08
Eurodam, Atlantic, Med. '10
Golden Princess
Reply With Quote
  #18 (permalink)  
Old March 5th, 2008, 06:48 PM
rinker250's Avatar
Senior Member
Admiral
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Northwest
Posts: 2,881
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mean Dean
Actually Dan, I think the U.S. Navy will always need a conventional carrier around. Japan has a no-nuclear policy, and any U.S. carrier home-ported there will have to be conventional.

Dean
Not as of Feb 1, Dean.
We worked the Kitty Hawk in Yokosuka last October to extend her capabilty until a major refit (boiler) next month.
Japan will allow nuclear power in her port beginning April of this year.

This change was a possibilty last june which is why we decommisioned the JFK (she was the only substitute for the Kitty).
I personally am sorry to see the steam drive go because it gave me a few weeks in Japan every year.
__________________
Dan
Peace through superior firepower.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
This is History rayb Chit - Chat for Cruisers 7 January 17th, 2010 03:29 PM
Scrapping History Cruisebunny7 Norwegian Cruise Lines 10 March 4th, 2008 10:44 PM
A Little History rayb Chit - Chat for Cruisers 2 February 2nd, 2008 09:13 PM
old history sandra harrisingh Carnival Cruise Lines 1 September 27th, 2004 09:57 AM
Old history sandra harrisingh Carnival Cruise Lines 0 September 27th, 2004 08:28 AM


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


 

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:01 PM.
design by: Themes by Design

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.6.1