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Old September 4th, 2008, 11:39 AM
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Default Kids On Airlines, Kids On Ships, Kids Anywhere

I guess that I must just be old and grumpy, but it seems that there are little kids crying or screaming almost everywhere I go. This particularly applies to resturants, movies and malls. I avoid this problem to a large extent on cruise ships, since I generally take long cruises during the winter months.

Almost every time we have been in a resturant during the past few months, there has been crying or screaming somewhere in the establishment. The same thing applies to movies. It seems that parents love to take their children, and some a bit older, to the worst R rated movies where they witness sex, death and crazy chainsaw maniacs.
I have witnessed little kids in the hallway outside the theatre terrified after the movie.

When our children were infants, we did not take them out into eating establishments or movies. When we did take them anywhere, they were trained to behave. Now, it seems, many parents either pay no attention to the bad behavior or even laugh at it which encourages it even more. Of course, they are exceptions to every situation, but everyone is entitled to there own space, and the sound of kids screaming violates mine.

That being said, "Live and let live, and you will live longer."

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Old September 4th, 2008, 01:03 PM
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Well you know I agree. Some parents should not be parents. I have left stores early because of someone's screaming, annoying brat. This doesn't mean all kids are screaming annoying brats, I have seem well behaved children they do exist. It depends on the kid.
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Old September 4th, 2008, 05:08 PM
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I believe it depends on the parents more than the kids.

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Old September 4th, 2008, 07:07 PM
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That's the point of my post. The limits of children's behavior are largely determined by their parents, and the rare sight of a young child sitting quietly and politely at a table in the dining room of a ship or in a resturant is certainly appreciated.
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Old September 7th, 2008, 12:11 PM
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On one occasion in a restaurant, obviously suited to a clientele of adults, a man, woman and two children were given a table not far from us. The children were unsettled and noisy with signs of total lack of discipline. Most of the patrons were upset by the antics of these atmosphere assassins including us.

A male customer from a party of four got up and walked over to the tantrum table and placed a packaged contraceptive before the father and quietly turned and walked away. The family summoned the manager for a brief moment of protest and departed the restaurant. Not many of us saw the "gift" delivery but we sure did admire his hutzpa.
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Old September 7th, 2008, 05:34 PM
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This certainly won't work everywhere but when I get a fussy kid (or screaming) next to me at the grocery store checkout I'll make a face when the mother can't see. Shocks the kid and shuts them up! Of course they have to be too small to report to the mom .

I will back track when shopping or waste time in an aisle just to get away! "Take that kid home for a nap!"
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Old September 7th, 2008, 09:56 PM
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If I see that the parent isn't trying to control their child, I'll say something. "Please help your child, thanks."

That whole speak before thinking thing? I'm awesome at it ::sheepish grin::
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Old September 9th, 2008, 06:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron n Jon
A male customer from a party of four got up and walked over to the tantrum table and placed a packaged contraceptive before the father and quietly turned and walked away. The family summoned the manager for a brief moment of protest and departed the restaurant. Not many of us saw the "gift" delivery but we sure did admire his hutzpa.
God, I admire him. That was an amazingly good message to give to mom and dad.

I too have found that in 90% of the cases of screaming or unruly children, it does not seem that they are being parented properly. As I said, on the airplane flights where I had problems with kids, the parents were pretty much ignoring them and letting them do whatever they wanted. The one woman even came right out and told the flight attendant that if she restrained her son ... making him stay in his seat, he would howl all the way to Philly and the entire cabin would have to listen to him for the rest of the flight. I wanted to ask her ... why can't you, the parent, do something to prevent that? Something like give him some undivided one-on-one attention? Up to this point, she was pretty much ignoring him.

Lots of parents shouldn't be parents. It's as simple as that. When I was growing up, all it took was a look from my father and any crying, misbehaving, etc., stopped ... immediately. That look was all it took. It told me that I was one step away from real trouble if I didn't knock it off. My mother also took the time to parent me ... making sure I was occupied during long car rides or while in church, etc. While I'm sure I wasn't the perfect kid, I know I wasn't like many of the kids you see today ... because I know my parents would have never put up with that crap.

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Old September 9th, 2008, 11:25 AM
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I think most (not all) parents reach a point somewhere during a child's first 2-3 years where sounds they used to hear and behavior they used to notice become completely unnoticeable.

What is it about small children in Target or at the grocery store that causes them to shriek like a parakeet for no apparent reason?? I'm sure you have all heard the exact sound I am referencing many times. Just a random one syllable shreeeeeeek. You look over to the offender after you have heard the sound perhaps 6-7 times to see what's going on and mommy/daddy are simply carrying on with their shopping as if the sound is not being emitted. When I was a kid I got "the look" and the noise stopped immediately - sometimes in mid-shriek.

As far as behavior in public is concerned, 'acceptable' child behavior seems to get lost somewhere too. Many (again, not all) parents just accept that certain things are OK. Behaviors of this nature simply become acceptable to parents because they see most (again, not all) other parents allowing it too. There is even a TV commercial for a national insurance chain that shows a scene of a young mother walking down an isle in the grocery store. Behind her are her two 'well behaved' children and they are tossing a football back and forth while they follow her down the isle. Since when is it OK to toss a football in the grocery store? Messages of this nature imply the bahavior is OK. Call me grumpy, but that type of behavior is not OK.

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Old September 11th, 2008, 08:52 AM
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I agree 150%. I can't stand hearing a child act up like this. When my child started acting like that in public, I would leave. When we got home I can tell ya he was not a happy camper, but he had a warm bottom. Now that he is older(ripe old age of 10), when we are anywhere that has a child that is acting up, he says loudly, " Goodness, can't you control them" and some parents look at me and they want to say something, but I cut them off by saying( to my son) " I know those kids are glad they aren't mine, theres a reason I always wear a belt" and the parents just walk away. My son knew, he would be told 2 times to stop something then it was to the bathroom for some warming of his butt. Which would hardly happen, because he knew I didn't back down. Im not saying I'm a perfect parent, but I couldn't stand kids acting up.
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Old September 11th, 2008, 01:31 PM
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Man some of you are a bit anti-kid, aren't you?

No doubt some of these kids are probably bad all of the time due to lousy parenting. But any parent will tell you there are times when any kid has a "bad kid day". That's why they call them kids. If I were out with my family, had a normally good kid who was acting up a bit and some stranger male came up to us with that condom stunt he would be returning to his table with a couple less teeth to enjoy his dessert...Most men I know would/should do the same thing if some one tries to humiliate their family because a child doesn't happen to be acting like a complete little prince or princess at that particular moment.

Parents are also sometimes between a bit of a rock and a hard place. If they seem to dish out too little discipline then they are "wimp" parents and don't satisfy the "By God when I was a kid this was the way it was" crowd. If they spank or become even a bit too harsh with their tone of voice then they are accused of being too mean by others.

Why don't some of you who love to boast how tolerant you are to other's cultures, sexual oreintation, race etc. try to be as tolerant toward a small child who's brain isn't even nearly developed yet. Have you ever thought that instead of giving the kid a nasty look (who is really acting like the child now) maybe giving him a silly look and a funny waive? Almost any kid will light up if you do that even if they are in a bad mood. If I'm around a a bit of an upset/cranky kid on a plane, restaurant or wherever, I play a sort of "peek a boo" type game with them that stops them from crying and makes them smile and laugh 90 pct of the time instead. In short, be a little patient with them, use your imagination and at least try to act like the adult in the situation. To me, I'd much rather be around a kid acting up a bit than an adult in a restaurant, plane or whatever who is drinking too much and becoming loud...which is the scenario I find alot more often than kids acting up. This will be my only post on the subject so flame me, grill me or whatever lol.
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Old September 11th, 2008, 02:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ready2board
... To me, I'd much rather be around a kid acting up a bit than an adult in a restaurant, plane or whatever who is drinking too much and becoming loud...which is the scenario I find alot more often than kids acting up. .
We would much prefer to be around a misbehaved child than dozens of other human situations. But that is not the point. Your reference indicates that you are primarily pinpointing small arm held children when you talk about making funny faces to distract them from their misery. We are not. We are speaking of three, four and five year old children who have managed to wrap their parents around their little sticky fingers and not only get away with murder, premeditate the scenario.

We know what cured us of those attempts at that age, clearly outlined by one of the above posters. It worked for us and we know it will work for them. The disciplines we all have in our adult life (or lack thereof) were formed in these impressionable years. Such discipline will not only make for a better life for the child but also more serenity in public places.
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Old September 11th, 2008, 03:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ready2board
To me, I'd much rather be around a kid acting up a bit than an adult in a restaurant, plane or whatever who is drinking too much and becoming loud...which is the scenario I find alot more often than kids acting up. This will be my only post on the subject so flame me, grill me or whatever lol.
I would rather be in a restaurant, plane or whatever when the kids and adults are well behaved. Why is it an either/or situation? If I don't want to be around screaming children, I also don't want to be around drunk adults.
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Old September 11th, 2008, 06:07 PM
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The bratty kids used to get on my nerves big-time (due to the un-parents) -- until the Cell Phone People invaded. I realized that, at least the kids really aren't being clods on purpose, so I am more forgiving of them (not the parents, though because they are the ones typically yacking loudly on their phones anyways).

Just glad that there aren't "signals" on cruiseships. Could you imagine?
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Old September 12th, 2008, 08:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron n Jon
We are speaking of three, four and five year old children who have managed to wrap their parents around their little sticky fingers and not only get away with murder, premeditate the scenario.
I often play a little "mind game" with myself which shows you the difference between the kids of today and yesterday. Think back when you were a child in a store with your parents. You see the candy aisle and ask mom if you can have a candy bar. Sometimes she says yes, but then other times she says no. Now think back. What did you do in response to her no, and more importantly, what did she do?

If my mom said no, it was no. If I decided to pull the scream and cry routine, usually one of my parents would escort (in other words, drag) me out of the store and then whoop my butt. So I learned that I could only go so far "oh, please, mommy ... pretty please!" until she gave me that look that said "subject closed."

Now watch the kids today. Same deal. I guarantee you ... nine times out of ten Johnny or Suzie will get that candy bar. I've seen it. Mom says no, kid starts crying or throwing a temper tantrum, and within seconds that candy bar is in his hands ... guaranteed.

You wouldn't have gotten away with that crap with my parents. Not on your life.

But that's why I think the kids are so out of control today. They know how to "play" mom and dad, and they aren't hesitant to do it.

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Old September 12th, 2008, 10:52 AM
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It is simply put like this. We parents are persecuted if we spank our children in public, leave our kids in the car while we run the money in to the gas station, etc.

Kids are taught at an early school age that if a parent spanks you you can call CPS (Child Protective Services) and they will get in trouble. I frankly know better than to consider spanking my child for that reason alone.

I do not feel that the Social Workers that work for CPS should have the authority/ability to make life altering living situations for a child under permanent circumstances. Granted these are situation where it is not clearly evident that any abuse has occurred. Most of the workers are just "fresh" out of school. No true life experiences. I am basing this upon the area where I live. There may be some great ones out there but in general the level of power they could exert is unbelievable.

If we could rear our kids the way we were brought up these kids would not be in the state they are all in today. A swift smack on the butt does wonders.

I was watching on discovery the new show about the kids that are sent to the principals office and in Texas these high school kids can choose a paddling or the Saturday detention. Why is it ok for that to occur but for the parent to paddle their own child -- you could end up childless.
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Old September 12th, 2008, 12:39 PM
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If we could rear our kids the way we were brought up these kids would not be in the state they are all in today. A swift smack on the butt does wonders.
Amen!

I agree with everything you say ... there was a story on the news here about a year ago. A woman was in a shopping mall with her kid. The kid apparently "acted out" to the point where mom had no choice but to leave her purchases and take the kid out of the store. Mom put the kid (read practically threw the kid) into the back of their mini-van and then leaned in to swat the kid a few times. Unfortunately, all this was caught on surveillance cameras in the parking lot and mom (who was divorced) wound up losing custody of the kids ... at least temporarily ... to dad. She didn't get any jail time, but she was convicted of child abuse. She had to undergo "anger management" classes and then I would imagine kiss her ex's butt to get any chance to visit with the kids until the court decided she was ready to get them back.

The funny thing was that it didn't look like she was beating the crap out of the kid, or anything like that. It seems that she just swatted her a few times. I'd hate to imagine what my mom would have done in similar circumstances ... if she spent maybe a good hour finding the items she wanted to buy, only to have to leave them behind because I wouldn't behave in the store.

The kids probably all know this is the way it is too. And they've got the parents in a bind ... no matter how badly they behave, mom and dad really can't do a whole lot about it.

Glad I don't have kids today. I wouldn't be at all good at this parenting stuff.

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Old September 12th, 2008, 12:43 PM
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A friend of mine is a nanny and she has the most well behaved charges you would ever want to see. And, her technique does not involve smacks on the butt or anywhere else. Believe me, that would be the end of her career.
But, she spends true quality time with the kids (sorry...that phrase is so overworked), so all she needs to do is tell them she is not happy with them and they behave. Kids need tons of affection and when they are used to getting it, the threat of having it withdrawn, even for a short while, is very punishing.
Parents pay this woman very well because of her skills and she has turned many a kid's attitude around, including some radical cases. While I don't have a problem with a token smack to get a child's attention, I think that many kids would be better behaved if their parents just took some time to spend with them.
Okay, okay, this kid can feel a group "smack" coming if I don't shut up. :o
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Old September 12th, 2008, 03:32 PM
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Look at the reality here you old-fashioned folks, you are talking about little people here with every right to behave in the way that they do and in all social circumstances...they are just learning to be big people.

They are not children, but free spirits and little people, doing and learning as they go along, think about it's a cool way for them to learn social skills.

They need to be free and live like this to become our adults of tomorrow.

It’s us that are missing the point here, us old folks that once used 'discipline' or that terrible once used word ‘chastise’…so please get up to date dudes.

Okay….,I’ve had my fun

So my real point is……….. in this dreamy 'little people' world that some use to bring up their children, when do I get to kick them and their totally selfish, ignorant of 'others around them' parents up the Axxx without getting the jail.....that’s the problem., people scared to question or react, when you and yours are in my face today?

What? I’m just supposed to put up with it, with no reaction?

Sorry, no chance
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Old September 12th, 2008, 03:43 PM
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I think it's a mistake to give kids self esteem. If you have no self esteem you have the need to prove yourself. Stop with the self esteem it crippling our youth.
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Old September 12th, 2008, 04:04 PM
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I disagree, self esteem is the most important thing a person can have. People without it will end up mixed up or physically ill.

From fat to thin in puking their guts, plenty of cases to back that up.

Build character in your children as parents, and not your arrogance based on ignoring others social values that live around you..ie its me me me.. teach them that or live that way and we are doomed as a race
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Old September 12th, 2008, 04:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katlady
I think it's a mistake to give kids self esteem. If you have no self esteem you have the need to prove yourself. Stop with the self esteem it crippling our youth.
Kat,

I think you may be using the wrong word. Self esteem is the feeling of one's worth.

Children need self-esteem if they truly are going to succeed in life. It can be done by "proving" themselves through accomplishments, learning and positive reenforcement from authority figures.

If you remove self-esteem from a child it replaces itself with a feeling of worthlessness and a lack of confidence. It then becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy: If they feel worthless then they will be.

Giving children an idea they are entitled to whatever they want or not using discipline to stop or bad behavior is something that will cripple them.

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Old September 13th, 2008, 06:22 AM
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A friend of mine is a nanny and she has the most well behaved charges you would ever want to see. And, her technique does not involve smacks on the butt or anywhere else. Believe me, that would be the end of her career.
If the kid was parented properly in his toddler years, he shouldn't need a smack anywhere as he gets older. But sometimes, when a child is very, very young, it could be difficult to "reason" with him ... simply because he is too young to make the intellectual connection between the word no and the behavior in which he is engaging. That is the only time I advocate a gentle smack on the bottom ... just to get his attention. I never said you beat the crap out of the kid.

You are 100% right. Pay attention to the kids and let them think that at that moment nothing in the world is more important to you than what he has to say, and you will raise well-behaved children who will be a joy in the lives of everyone they meet. But ignore your kid and you create a monster.

With the kid running up and down the aisle on that Orlando to Philly flight, making everyone's life a living hell, the mother clearly had no interest in parenting him, and in fact was pretty much ignoring him. I freely said that if she had taken him into her lap, pulled out a picture book or some such thing, and really engaged him, he would have probably been no trouble at all on the flight. But today a lot of parents, sadly, should never have been parents. They want to take the "quick route" ... have my kids, get them through this "annoying" childhood phase as quickly as possible, and one day have a bunch of adoring adults to comfort me in my old age.

Well, guess what? It doesn't work that way, and every parent I know who took shortcuts in the child's formative years is paying for them now.

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Old September 15th, 2008, 07:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ready2board
Man some of you are a bit anti-kid, aren't you?
I have noticed this too!


Remember we were all there at one time the terrible twos and I know all of us misbehaved at one point during that time.
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Old September 15th, 2008, 11:19 AM
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I think that it is more that we are anti-parent. Granted that there may be occasional exceptions, but when you find kids screaming or behaving badly, it is the parents fault for not raising them properly.

Certainly the parents, and there are many, who take their little kids to R rated horror movies seem to be lacking in common sense.
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Old September 15th, 2008, 11:19 PM
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ready2board
Man some of you are a bit anti-kid, aren't you?
I have noticed this too!


Remember we were all there at one time the terrible twos and I know all of us misbehaved at one point during that time.
I was an angel at two years old. I still have the halo.
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Old September 16th, 2008, 06:23 AM
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Old September 18th, 2008, 10:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul B
I think that it is more that we are anti-parent. Granted that there may be occasional exceptions, but when you find kids screaming or behaving badly, it is the parents fault for not raising them properly.

Certainly the parents, and there are many, who take their little kids to R rated horror movies seem to be lacking in common sense.
I swear I tried to avoid a comment...I did... but....

I have to agree with Paul B ( no pun intended.) Very few of us don't like kids, because we were one once and in my case I have a son. It is the behavior that we don't like. Many parents are so used to letting others maintain their kids that they tend to yield their parenting responsibilities to others. This is not a knock against anyone, but when we look to the schools to "raise" our kids, and we are all so busy, some parents let their kids go. That is what causes most of our disdain. I guess it is just a "sign of the times". It was not like that when I was a kid. Act bad in public (anywhere) and you paid for it. That's not a given anymore....
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Old September 19th, 2008, 04:21 PM
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Well said, we are not anti kid, we are anti how the parents bring them up and present them to others...simple
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Old September 24th, 2008, 03:07 PM
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I think the difference is that the other groups are not any more likely to scream and whine than anyone else. I love kids, but being in a confined place with kids whose parents allow them to throw temper tantrums gets on my nerves.....and most people's.
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