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Old September 14th, 2008, 09:18 AM
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Default stealing from the cruise

i am just curious as to how so many people find this acceptable.

i have been reading some other threads, and some things blow my mind.

[edited for personal attacks] How is it ok for you to go on board and steal photos, just because you don't want to pay for them? if you were to do this on land, what would happen? why does it have to be accepted on ships?? the fact that you think you're not stealing form anyone, only the cruiseline, show's how little you really know. the photographers who take the photos, they consider them them work. so first of all, you're stealing someone's work. and do you know how the pay structure is for the photographers? my guess is no, so when you steal the photos, you are also taking away from their salary. so i find it highly amusing that nearly all your post are ranting and raving about how underpaid the crew are, maybe if you stop stealing from them, that wouldn't be a problem an more.

i really wonder why some people think it is ok for them to steal on board, thinking they're "only taking from the company" well, guess what, I"M part of that company, and every time you steal something, either we loose money from on-board revenue, or targets go higher and are un-achievable, so whilst you may think it doesn't affect us, the lowly underpaid crew, YES IT DOES. so thank you for stealing from my pocket for the last 7 years.

now, i'm not saying everyone does it, i have read so many good post hear, and only wish some of you could have been guests on some of my ships instead of what we did have, so please no-body get offended as i'm not saying everyone does it, but you would really be surprised at how man do and how most of them think its ok to do it!!
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Old September 14th, 2008, 09:38 AM
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We certainly are no advocates of stealing but it is a two way street. When an alcohol drink made for 57 cents can be sold to a captive market for $9.00, then that too is a form of stealing. One could say that this price represents whatever the market will bear. But then too must the loss of ashtrays or whatever represent whatever the company can bear. And of course the loss of the ashtray or whatever makes the price of the drink now $10.00, etcetera, etcetera and so forth, until the bar is without customers.....and ashtrays.
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Old September 14th, 2008, 09:49 AM
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but things are done like that on land too, not just on a ship, that's how business is done. i'm not talking about the mark up at a bar, i always wondered how i could buy a can of coke in a store and pay 1 euro, and go to my local and pay 3.50 euro for on half the size. my point is how someone finds it morally acceptable to go to a place, see something they want, but oh shame, it's too expensive, so i'll just take it. where in the world is that acceptable? and why should it be different on a ship?
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Old September 14th, 2008, 01:43 PM
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Stealing is not acceptable, or justifiable by the price of anything. I really don't think even a tiny minority of cruisers ever actually steal from the cruise lines. If you have seen posts in here I am sure it is just from a few people who haven't really matured enough yet to see that their personal actions lead to consequences - sooner or later.

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Old September 14th, 2008, 02:30 PM
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The fact that some cruise lines may charge high prices for onboard extras is no excuse for passengers' stealing anything from the ship. And photographers are usually independent contractors (as I understand it), and they have nothing to do with the price of drinks.
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Old September 14th, 2008, 03:12 PM
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Fact is they sell cruises to people that cannot really afford the full cruise experience.

So they invite their own "thieves" or "smugglers" on board when they sell the cruise at the prices they do.

You invite scum, you get a scummy reation or action.

Sorry its a basic problem in cruising today, show it or sell it cheap, and let them ignore the real cost in add ons for the experience.

And they also steal the experience from those around them, by being scum.

Only scum would steal a picture or anything else,,,,lock up your cabin as they are on board.
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Old September 14th, 2008, 03:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DayvidB
Fact is they sell cruises to people that cannot really afford the full cruise experience.

So they invite their own "thieves" or "smugglers" on board when they sell the cruise at the prices they do.

You invite scum, you get a scummy reation or action.

Sorry its a basic problem in cruising today, show it or sell it cheap, and let them ignore the real cost in add ons for the experience.

And they also steal the experience from those around them, by being scum.

Only scum would steal a picture or anything else,,,,lock up your cabin as they are on board.
i don't really agree with that. the only reason i am able to go on my first cruise is because i got a low rate on it but that doesn't mean im scum. people that spends thousands on their tickets are just as likely to steal. its not the amount of money that someone has that makes them a thief, its their morals.
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Old September 14th, 2008, 03:44 PM
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I agree with you, DayvidB. This is a bit of a deviation from topic here, but TAs and cruise line sales reps need to do a better job of explaining the "extras" and their cost at time of booking.

One cruise line was advertising here that their cruise was "just like an all inclusive resort that goes from place to place" As I knew that these cruises were far from "like an all inclusive resort" I reported this ad to our state's consumer fraud division, and soon thereafter it appeared no more.

Still no excuse to steal form an independent contractor onboard -- or anybody else.
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Old September 14th, 2008, 04:25 PM
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first of all, on most cruise lines, the photographers are in-house.

from what i have seen in my years on ships, there is no definition of who steals. my husband (who is a photo manager), once had a guest come to him and tell him that there was a couple stealing photos on the other side of the gallery, and when he went to see, its was an platinum couple in their 70's (platinum being on carnival the highest level for repeat cruisers). how do you explain to someone who is old enough to be your grandfather that you can't steal?

i also had one incident on a ship, where a guest was purchasing several hundred dollars of merchandise, and when i swiped the card it was a 6 year olds card, and she told me it was her grandson, who was sanding beside her. an hour later, another family came to the store with one of the pursers after seeing the charge on their account. luckily i remembered who had used the card, and we got their information from the ships system, and when they brought the family to the securiyt office, the mother had the cheek to balme her 5 year old son. who had also used 2 other peoples cards with the tattoo artist during the cruise, AND signed 2 different signatures without even blinking. at 5 years old.

Some people amaze me. i was taught if you didn't buy it and you weren't given it, yet you had it anyway, then it's been stolen. If you don't have the money for it, what makes it acceptable to steal it??
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Old September 14th, 2008, 08:10 PM
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Stealing from the cruiseline is what drives up the cost of services. It is a part of doing business it's called "shrinkage" and if you are thinking about George Costanza shame on you. If the cruiseline's experience tells it that it will lose $10K due to shrinkage during a cruise then they have to make up that income somewhere - perhaps in higher overall cruise costs, or maybe just higher prices on items most apt to lose money.

Business face it everywhere. Land or sea.

So when you take that for which you have not paid - we all pay.
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Old September 15th, 2008, 12:19 AM
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I would never think of stealing anything anywhere. I must be naive on this. The only time I can recall any one stealing on a ship was on Holland America. They had bottles of alchohol to pour on ice cream. I saw an elderly man just fill a glass with a bottle and leave. Later on the bottles were behind the counter and you had to ask the server to pour for you. I guess the staff saw what was going on.
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Old September 15th, 2008, 02:17 AM
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and if you are thinking about George Costanza shame on you

pardon my ignorance, but who is george and what has he got to do with stealing from the cruise??[/quote]
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Old September 15th, 2008, 07:05 AM
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It is simple if you can't afford the pictures or don't want to pay the price for them take your own pictures with your own camera.

However I'm sure some people do steal and maybe not only photos but other things around the ship. :evil:
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Old September 15th, 2008, 09:29 AM
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There is no justification for stealing. I always wondered why they print out the pictures before they know if anyone wants them. In the digital age, it would certainly cut back on stealing if you reviewed your pictures on a monitor (either at the photo gallery or on the television in your cabin), selected the ones you wanted, and picked up the prints on the last day. No loose unwanted prints to be thrown away, no prints to tempt a somewhat shady passenger to steal.
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Old September 15th, 2008, 10:39 AM
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I agree with dlm2005. There is no need for all those prints all over the photo area. It just opens up opportunity for theft! Instead of prints all over the area, place screens to view the photos, mark the ones you want to print, swipe your card and pick them up at a later time or have them delivered to your stateroom! I think seeing all those photos on the photo boards just clutters up the ship and dsitracts from the beauty of the ship. I'd like to see this area "cleaned up" a bit.

I have never personally seen anyone stealing the photos but it would be easy to do!
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Old September 15th, 2008, 11:22 AM
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Also, there is very little sense in trying to steal the towel animals. The darn things just seem to fall apart!
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Old September 15th, 2008, 01:06 PM
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quote=". its not the amount of money that someone has that makes them a thief, it's their morals.[/quote]

We couldn't agree more. One only need look at today's Markets...

Our comments regarding the price of goods aboard the ship (Note: Not the value) was solely to point out that those who are most likely to steal will do so more often when they in turn feel they are being taken advantage of financially, tit for tat so to speak. It isn't right but it's compreshensive.
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Old September 15th, 2008, 01:08 PM
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Quote:
ex-crewmember Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2008 11:17 pm Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

and if you are thinking about George Costanza shame on you

pardon my ignorance, but who is george and what has he got to do with stealing from the cruise??
Sorry - It is a Seinfeld reference - perhaps more obscure than I thought. It has to do with "shrinkage" not cruises.
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Old September 15th, 2008, 02:23 PM
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Default printing the phtotos

they tried an experiment on royal carribbean with taking your sail and sign # before you take a photo, and then having them for display on monitors, but it was a disaster!! the queues were much longer, as people didn't always realise you had to have yout card, you all know how long the gangway lines are as soon as the ship docks, can you inagine how much longer it would be?

carnival will be trying a similar experiment on the dream when it sails, so we'll see how that goes.

so for now, for the cruise line, printing and dislapying the photo's, then recycling the unwanted, it's still the most cost effective. if only people had the morals, there wouldn't be a problem!!!
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Old September 15th, 2008, 07:29 PM
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I, personally, would not steal my photos. But I can certainly see how some folks justify it. They are ridiculously overpriced, and since they are already printed up, they are just going to end up in the trash if you DON'T buy them. Even if you do not figure in the justification that everything on a cruise is over priced, the fact that those pictures are going to be trashed at the end of the cruise anyway, allows some people to rationalize their poor behaviour. If they just priced them much more reasonably they would probably sell 3-4 times more and end up making more in the long run. I would certainly buy way more than the token 2 or 3 if they didn't cost so much. I usually find at least 8-10 I would LIKE to buy, and probably more if the price was right. I always feel like it is such a waste as I tuck those great pictures back in the rack.
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Old September 15th, 2008, 08:05 PM
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I agree with Pattizoo.
I will never steal my photos nor will I ever buy them.

They are just offensively expensive.

Perhaps if the pictures were priced around four times what they cost to make more people would buy them and then the photogs would make a buck too.

I've got to think that is better than tossing 90% of them because they are priced at ten times the cost.
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Old September 16th, 2008, 12:25 AM
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Default Stealing is Wrong Period

I am sorry, but I just dont agree with your comments. What one spends or does not spend on a cruise is NOT a reflection of thier morals. It is more a reflection of their particular budjet. When I go on a cruise I double the price of the cruise and that is my spending money. When my friends go, they count each penny. Neither one of us would dream of stealing as much as a piece of soap less on a photo.

As far as buying the photos on board, I dont like to have my photo taken and we found that every time we were leaving or boarding they had an exuse to take photos, I started telling them I was in the Witness Protection Program and could not be photograped....You should see mouths drop, but they leave you alone! I like to be the one behind the camera and in control of what is being shot.

But stealing is wrong despite your level of wealth.


Quote:
Originally Posted by DayvidB
Fact is they sell cruises to people that cannot really afford the full cruise experience.

So they invite their own "thieves" or "smugglers" on board when they sell the cruise at the prices they do.

You invite scum, you get a scummy reation or action.

Sorry its a basic problem in cruising today, show it or sell it cheap, and let them ignore the real cost in add ons for the experience.

And they also steal the experience from those around them, by being scum.

Only scum would steal a picture or anything else,,,,lock up your cabin as they are on board.
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Old September 16th, 2008, 11:27 AM
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Taking anything that you haven't paid for is stealing plain and simple. Doesn't matter if the drinks are overpriced, the photographs are overpriced, the soda cards are overpriced - if you don't want to pay the price, you can just do without. The bottom line is that it trickles down and hurts everyone in the end.
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Old September 16th, 2008, 12:35 PM
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As a side note, one of the premier "lux" lines, Silversea, does not even have a photographer onboard. This line used to have them, but they got rid of them because guest comment cards revealed that guests didn't like to have photographers blocking embarkation routes, and otherwise hanging around public areas. So on that line, there are no photos to steal!

In any event, there is no excuse for stealing anything on a ship -- or anywhere else for that matter.
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Old September 16th, 2008, 01:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by green_rd
Quote:
ex-crewmember Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2008 11:17 pm Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

and if you are thinking about George Costanza shame on you

pardon my ignorance, but who is george and what has he got to do with stealing from the cruise??
Sorry - It is a Seinfeld reference - perhaps more obscure than I thought. It has to do with "shrinkage" not cruises.
Warm water would help George.
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Old September 16th, 2008, 01:25 PM
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I don't beleive in stealing and I have not taken any photos.

However, if you go through your neighbor’s garbage to pull out soda cans for recycling is that stealing from your neighbor? If at the end of the cruise you see your photos in a recycle bin and remove them isn't that the same thing? What about the people the sneak booze on the ship are they stealing from the cruise line because they aren't buying drinks?

The cruise lines have what is called a Geographical Monopoly that is why they charge so much, because you as the consumer have not alternative place to buy things. A movie theater is also a Geographical Monopoly. Ever snuck a soda into a movie theater, isn't that stealing?
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Old September 16th, 2008, 02:57 PM
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For that matter isn't cancelling your shipboard service charges stealing?

You may not have liked what the cabin steward said to you and so you cancelled them, but over 90% of the amount was intended for others. Is that stealing from them?
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Old September 16th, 2008, 04:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katlady
I don't believe in stealing and I have not taken any photos.

However, if you go through your neighbor’s garbage to pull out soda cans for recycling is that stealing from your neighbor? If at the end of the cruise you see your photos in a recycle bin and remove them isn't that the same thing? What about the people the sneak booze on the ship are they stealing from the cruise line because they aren't buying drinks?

The cruise lines have what is called a Geographical Monopoly that is why they charge so much, because you as the consumer have not alternative place to buy things. A movie theater is also a Geographical Monopoly. Ever snuck a soda into a movie theater, isn't that stealing?
Going through garbage to obtain recycling is not stealing. Nor is it stealing to take any other item. If the garbage is still on "their" property and not in the street then it is stealing. This has come up in numerous court cases.

If the photos are still on the ship then it is stealing to take them, even if they are in a recycling bin.

Sneaking booze on isn't stealing but it is a violation of your cruise contract and that allows them to confiscate it or do whatever is outlined in the cruise contract.

Sneaking soda is the same. You have violated the rules of the theater and if it is posted "No Outside Food" then you are subject to their policy.

Cruise lines and movie theaters may be "geographical monopolies" but you are there of your own accord and have agreed to their rules by boarding or entering.

So, though things may not be stealing they are still wrong.

Take care,
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Old September 16th, 2008, 06:52 PM
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Who decides what is moral for everyone? One person may determine that sneaking on booze is not wrong, but is a violation of your cruise contract. Another person may determine that sneaking on booze is wrong and a violation of your cruise contract.

If for years you have been cruising and bottles of booze used to be allow on board but are no longer, you may feel the cruise line is trying to "get over" on you. This may cause you sneaking in booze. Are you now morally wrong?
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Old September 17th, 2008, 12:18 PM
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Yep. you're still morally wrong. As Mike said, you are going under conditions that you are aware of. They have the right to determine the rules, not individuals. When right and wrong are determined by individuals, the result is anarchy....literal definition here. Anything on my property is mine, anything on your property is yours, anything on their "property" is theirs. Period.
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