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-   -   Smoking on Princess Ships Should be Prohibited (http://www.cruisemates.com/forum/travel-gripes/369820-smoking-princess-ships-should-prohibited.html)

carlball December 4th, 2009 04:08 PM

Smoking on Princess Ships Should be Prohibited
 
Princess fails to protect non-smokers from the well-known negative health consequences of second-hand cigarette, cigar, and pipe smoke.

Princess makes no effort to enforce the minimal rules they do have. If you point out a violation of the rules to the Pursers office, they will listen to you and do nothing. Security people who are supposed to enforce the rules can see people smoking in non-smoking eating areas - and not say or do anything. I understand that Princess employees don’t want to hassle customers, but letting smokers pollute the air wherever they want is grossly unfair to non-smokers.

There is so much Princess and other cruise lines could easily do to make things better - like have all smoking cabins on the Port side and all non-smoking cabins on the Starboard side; and restrict smoking in public rooms to enclosed designated areas. Celebrity and RCI have taken a step in the right direction by banning smoking in cabins and on balconies, but more is required!

P&O Cruises Australia seems to be leading the way in limiting smoking on cruise ships. Their policy is: “In the interest of our passengers' health, safety and enjoyment during their cruising holiday, smoking is not permitted indoors, including in cabins, suites and on private balconies. This is in line with Australian standards. Outdoor smoking venues will be published in the Pacific Daily on board your cruise” (see P&O Cruises - Smoking Policy).

The smoking policies of most cruise lines can be found at: Cruise Ship Smoking Policies . Princess is not alone in catering to smokers and disregarding the health, safety and enjoyment of non-smokers.

Princess wants to pretend that sensitivity to tobacco smoke is just a matter of personal preference and opinion – not a real health and safety issue. You would think the Star Princess fire of March 23, 2006 would have made it abundantly clear to Princess management how dangerous smoking in cabins and on balconies is to the physical safety of passengers, crew, and the ship itself. See Star Princess Suffers Major Fire - Princess Cruises for details of the horrific fire.

Princess once told us in a letter that cruise ships were not like airplanes, and that passengers could not be expected to wait for the next Port to smoke. I would respond that smoking is completely optional, and treatment options are available for those wishing to quit smoking. Breathing fresh air is not optional; in fact, it is an absolute necessity for people with respiratory issues like Asthma, and is generally necessary for everyone’s good health – including smokers.

Princess says that smoking is prohibited in dinning areas and theaters. However, when smoking is allowed in cabins, the clothing of smokers is saturated with the stench of stale smoke that goes with them throughout the ship. The stench lingers for a long time after the smoker leaves the area. This definitely affected our enjoyment of public areas.

Some public areas are divided into smoking and non-smoking sides. This ridiculous approach results in the whole area being filled with cigarette smoke. The only effective way to control the spread of cigarette smoke in public areas is to eliminate it at the source. Otherwise, you should label the public areas as Smoking Only.

Non-smokers pay the same price as smokers for a cruise. But smokers have the power to prevent non-smokers from enjoying most of the ship’s features by the simple act of smoking and polluting the air in an area. If cruise lines were fair, they would charge non-smoking passengers substantially less because they cannot enjoy the ship as much as smokers.

Cruise ships seem to be the last refuge of smokers. Smokers think nothing about lighting-up in the presence of non-smokers. They often seem to enjoy exposing others to their second-hand smoke. Cruise line management is extremely reluctant to offend the sensibilities of smokers. They don’t seem to realize how many non-smoking customers they are loosing after each trip. According to the CDC, only 19.8 of U.S. adults smoked cigarettes in 2007. Cruise management had better start being concerned about the sensibilities of the 80% of the population that don’t smoke, if they want to remain a growing industry.

Princess management doesn’t want to know what their customers think about their smoking policy. They could easily find out by including smoking in the things they put in their evaluation questionnaire, like:

v Should smoking continue to be allowed in cabins?
v Should smoking continue to be allowed on balconies?
v Should smoking continue to be allowed in bars and lounges?
v Should smoking continue to be allowed on the Promenade Deck?
v How effective is enforcement of the Smoking Policy of this ship?
v Does allowing smoking on this ship negatively impact your enjoyment of the cruise?
v Does smoking on this ship negatively impact your health?
v Does allowing smoking on this ship cause you to be concerned about the safety of cruising?
v What could we do to reduce the impact of smoking on you?
v How important is it for you to be able to smoke on this ship?
v Should smoking be banned on this ship?

Princess could easily ask these questions if they were interested in what their customers thought about smoking. The fact that they don’t ask any smoking questions tells me how desperate they are to allow smoking in spite of their fiduciary duty to the stockholders. They don’t ask the questions because they don’t want to know the results that would probably require them to take actions to limit or band smoking. By not asking any questions, management can pretend that everything is fine, and that they are not aware of any serious problem allowing smoking causes their customers. This is folly on steroids!

Princess needs to join the rest of the civilized world and highly restrict smoking on ships so that non-smokers are not continually subjected to the stench and health impacts of second hand smoke, the potential of spending many hours/days in a life boat, or worse - cancer from second smoke or death by fire.

I personally favor an absolute ban of any type of smoking on cruise ships – with violators removed from the ship at the next Port (like they do for drug possession or use). My wife and I have decided to boycott Princess until they completely ban smoking on their cruise ships. The perks of being Platinum means nothing compared to the stench of cigarette smoke.

lulu48 December 4th, 2009 04:18 PM

Try Oceania or Azamara they do not have many areas for smokers.
Oceania does enforce their policy & have been know to put offenders off at the next port of call

Paul B December 4th, 2009 09:28 PM

I have never smoked and never will. I do respect your right to express your opinion, but, until it outlawed, smoking is a personal right. I will continue to cruise Princess and all the other lines that permit smoking, but I will stay away from areas where smoking is permitted except for the casino where I can tolerate it. Smokers are NOT second class citizens.

Live and let live, and you will live longer!

DayvidB December 7th, 2009 02:20 PM

As a heavy smoker but one who "smokes to the rules" on ship I have to agree with the sentiment of Carlball's post.

Yes smokers are entitled to do their habit on ship, but you are relying on people doing the right thing, and it appears that in some cases they are not. As a smoker married to a non smoker I would take great exception to a fellow smoker, smoking where they should be when with my wife IN A DESIGNATED NON SMOKING AREA.

The problem is yet again the lines take a back seat and IGNORE people breaking the rules, and then leave it to people like me to do their job and chastise said person. Hey, that’s not my job!!! But why should I have to put up with the result of your lack of BALLS when dealing with your clients?

I smoke, but I do it where I should, but people that walk out of that line are in my opinion displaying an arrogance over others that should be tackled for the sake of all, and by the CREW. I am also convinced that this is not only a Princess problem, its endemic in how people treat others when on a ship and for some all rules go out the window / porthole.

As a smoker, again I agree with you, not right

Russell in MD December 11th, 2009 05:05 PM

Yaaaaaawn.

Stay home in your plastic bubble.

Next troll.........

R

katlady December 11th, 2009 11:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russell in MD (Post 1262093)
Yaaaaaawn.

Stay home in your plastic bubble.

Next troll.........

R

http://collectively-yours.com/images...surferpink.jpg

colorcrazie December 12th, 2009 02:19 PM

LOL. Katlady, you can really get me! Love it.
Marty

Russell in MD December 12th, 2009 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by katlady (Post 1262157)

Would some kind board admin please help carlball get his avatar set up properly.

R

momofmeg December 12th, 2009 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul B (Post 1261207)
I have never smoked and never will. I do respect your right to express your opinion, but, until it outlawed, smoking is a personal right. I will continue to cruise Princess and all the other lines that permit smoking, but I will stay away from areas where smoking is permitted except for the casino where I can tolerate it. Smokers are NOT second class citizens.

Live and let live, and you will live longer!

I agree and I hate cigarette smoke-BUT there are lines that prohibit in door smoking and even balcony smoking-so it is simple for the OP to simply pick another line.

I know NCL has one room/lounge aea for smokers-the rest of the ship's public areas are smoke free. I know we were in a lounge near this other lounge and we could smell smoke occasionally,when others entered that area, the door was opened of course-I started to gripe until I considered-well I could move to a lounge further away. It was not that hard! The smokers had no where else to go. I do believe we should be kind to others.

lhp December 21st, 2009 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul B (Post 1261207)
I have never smoked and never will. I do respect your right to express your opinion, but, until it outlawed, smoking is a personal right. I will continue to cruise Princess and all the other lines that permit smoking, but I will stay away from areas where smoking is permitted except for the casino where I can tolerate it. Smokers are NOT second class citizens.

Live and let live, and you will live longer!

I respectfully disagree about smoking being a "right"....it is not a "right"....it is a privilege and as such should be treated that way.
It is also a responsibility.

Alcohol is also a legal substance, but a person is not allowed to drink and drive....because someone else may be harmed.

Smoking is no different. No one has the "right" to harm another human being (with a legal substance or anything else). Smokers have the responsibility not to harm another human being.

Smokers have treated nonsmokers like second class citizens for generations with the attitude....."if you don't like the smoke, move".

So question to you is...."why should you have to avoid an area of the ship (that you paid to use) because someone else is addicted to a drug that will make you ill?" We aren't talking stinky perfume.....passing gas does not smell good...but it doesn't contain 3,000 toxins (most of which are carcinogens). Aren't smokers treating YOU like a second class citizen when you can not go into the piano bar....because of their addiction?

And let us not forget that (especially during the summer)....there can be hundreds...(sometimes over a thousand) CHILDREN on board. Do people think the smoke stops when it gets to a child's lungs and says...."this will harm them, I am not going to invade their little body."

Now....it is unrealistic to believe that someone can go on a ship and not smoke. Therefore, smoking rooms (properly ventilated and used ONLY for that purpose) should be built into these ships.

The bottom line is that the person with the addiction is the ONLY person who should be inconvenienced.

Btw, I think only allowing electronic cigarettes onboard is another very viable option. My friends used them on the Dream last week with wonderful results. They were able to smoke anywhere they wanted to without health issues to those around them.

Popeye December 22nd, 2009 07:41 AM

I was on Carnival Liberty from the 28th Nov until 5th Dec. We couldn't use the Piano bar or Disco because of the smoke. It doesn’t take much smoke to effect someone with asthma. Most of the smoke in the piano bar was from the Piano player, who wasn't very good anyway. This, among some other issues, is why this was my 3rd and last carnival cruise.

momofmeg December 22nd, 2009 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Popeye (Post 1263760)
I was on Carnival Liberty from the 28th Nov until 5th Dec. We couldn't use the Piano bar or Disco because of the smoke. It doesn’t take much smoke to effect someone with asthma. Most of the smoke in the piano bar was from the Piano player, who wasn't very good anyway. This, among some other issues, is why this was my 3rd and last carnival cruise.

We haven't cruised Carnival since they changed their policy to smoking and non smoking lounges. We have always loved the piano bar, and before, the smokers were on one side, the non smokers the other, and we were never bothered by the smoke, but when their policy changed, well then the smokers who could not use the other lounges were, of course crowded, into the piano bar. We could not breathe either, and my husband and I don't have asthma problems.

Truck Cruiser December 27th, 2009 01:25 AM

Are you kidding me?
We just got back from a 10 dayon the Island Princess and it was the most restrictive cruise I have been on for a smoker like me.

Smoking on the outer decks was limited to a few tables by the Lido pool, they didn't want you to smake elsewhere on that side of the ship.

Inside the ship was a very small, 10 chair Churchills lounge to smoke in and the Casino, except there was no smoking in the casino on the fromal nights.

Thank God that I could still smoke in my room and on my balcony.

Smokers have had their rights continually taken from them. I think that it is time to stop this non-smoking madness and leave us a few places to smoke, inside and out, or the cruise industry will see many smokers leave for other, unrestrictive forms of vacationing.

Nurse Debra December 27th, 2009 01:29 PM

Truck Cruiser,

Well said!!!!

While some cruise lines have begun offering an unlimited drinking program it is amazing that few have any problem with that but if I have a cigarette on my own balcony at 1:00 am, some will get all relied up about that.

As you said, on Princess they have, IMHO struck a good balance for both non smokers and smokers.

My opinion is that I should respect non-smokers rights and in turn they should respect my rights.

Debra

KellieinNapa December 27th, 2009 01:40 PM

On RCL smoking was allowed on balconies and that meant we had to smell stinky smoke any time we wanted to use ours. On NCL smoking was NOT allowed on balconies and we could enjoy our balcony smoke free.

I expect smoke in the casino but want to be able to breathe fresh air in my own room and balcony. I don't think that's too much to ask.

katlady December 28th, 2009 06:38 PM

I beleive that the smokers should follow the ship's policy. If the non smoker doesn't like the ship's policy then don't cruise that ship/cruiseline. Most things in life are simple. If you don't want to smell smoke on the balcony cruise a line that doesn't allow smoking on the balcony. If you want to hang out in the piano bar cruise a line that doesn't allow smoking in the piano bar. If the smoker is following the polices then the non smoking has no reason to complain.

However, if the smoker is smoking where he shouldn't be then all us non smokers should unite and throw him in a lifeboat setting him out to sea. (Please realize that is a joke and Katlady doesn't condone that type of behavior). ;)

Electronic cigarettes very interesting I had never hear of that before. This could solve everyone's problem. Then smokers and non smokers could live in peace and harmony. Until they find something else to argue about. :-?
Here is the information on the Electronic Cigarette.
Electronic cigarette - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
An electronic cigarette, otherwise known as a personal vaporizer, is a battery-powered device that provides inhaled doses of nicotine by way of a vaporized solution.

Solo1959 January 4th, 2010 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lhp (Post 1263590)
I respectfully disagree about smoking being a "right"....it is not a "right"....it is a privilege and as such should be treated that way.

I have to disagree. In the USA, we are privileged that we can excercize our rights. But no-one in this country grants us our rights or privileges. We fought a revolutionary war back in the 1700's to make it official. The people give powers to the government, not the other way around. All the government can do is mediate between two parties when their excercize of their rights seems to conflict.
So, yes, we have the right to smoke. We have the right not to smoke. It is definitely preferrable for people to be repsectful and polite, and to do the right thing, rather than asking for the government to control andrestrict our rights.

momofmeg January 26th, 2010 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by momofmeg (Post 1262219)
I agree and I hate cigarette smoke-BUT there are lines that prohibit in door smoking and even balcony smoking-so it is simple for the OP to simply pick another line.

I know NCL has one room/lounge aea for smokers-the rest of the ship's public areas are smoke free. I know we were in a lounge near this other lounge and we could smell smoke occasionally,when others entered that area, the door was opened of course-I started to gripe until I considered-well I could move to a lounge further away. It was not that hard! The smokers had no where else to go. I do believe we should be kind to others.

I just wanted to let you guys know my opinion on this has changed since my last HAL cruise. We had a veranda and a neighbor who chain smoked next door to us. On previous cruises we have had considerate smoking neighbors who would smoke one cigarette and then leave the air clean. All I had to do is step back into my room fro 10 minutes and allow them to smoke their cigarette. This was not true this cruise, no matter when we stepped out on our blacony. it seemed to me this man must have stayed on his balocny smoking for most of the time.

I have learned HAL is attracting formerly Celebrity cruisers who are heavy smokers, because of Celebrity's new guidelines. HAL, a line, that formerly had maybe 20% smokers, now has a much higher smoker rate.

I have been told the same thing has happened to Princess, that RCI smokers have defected to Princess, so, bottom line, I do no think I am in a hurry to cruise either line again now.

DayvidB January 29th, 2010 03:35 PM

Bottom line, no matter what I think or you think SMOKING is not illegal. We the smokers do it in the limited places where we are allowed these days, so TOUGH on your opinion.

Until some very brave person makes it illegal, sorry thats how it is.

There is never going to be a winner in this debate, but for those that are so anti smoking I would recommend a ship or line with a FULL anti smoking policy. Lines or ships that dont have one,,,dont blame us as they said we can smoke and thats why we are on there and not on the non smoking ship,,smoking

Russell in MD January 31st, 2010 09:42 AM

I think some of the folks who can sniff out a smoker on a balcony down on the other end of the ship with a 30 knot breeze going should seek employment with the customs people snagging coke mules.

Just so everyone knows how this crap is trickling down and making more folks agitated I just came back from the Ruby and the cigar lounge was frequently taken over by groups of rude chain-smoking Europeans who would obnoxiously steal ash trays, hog seats, and have loud conversations in foreign languages, presumably because there were not many places on the promenade that allowed smoking. It’s a CIGAR LOUNGE NOT A SMOKING LOUNGE. I can’t tell you how many times I have tried to enjoy a cigar in places that allowed cigarettes only to be told I couldn’t. But being a considerate person I have always accommodated other people to a certain extent.

The folks who harp on this second hand smoke stuff need to do some reading up on what “time weighted averages” (TWAs) and “permissible exposure levels” (PELs) are. You all probably inhale more carcinogens standing near the gas fill port when you gas up your car every couple days than you do by getting a wift of someone smoking 20-50 feet away from you in an outdoor area with a breeze going every once in a while.

I have an idea. I will take up a donation next time I take a cruise and will take along a Summa canister and timed regulator which I use from time to time to collect air samples and sit it on my balcony for 12 hrs where I may enjoy a cigar from time to time. I will then have it analyzed. If they will allow me on the ship with the little a-bomb looking canister it will cost a couple hundred dollars to analyze. The analysis has a resolution of parts-per-billion. I will then post the results and permissible limits for each compound.

/Rant off/

R

katlady January 31st, 2010 12:08 PM

I love the smell of a cigar and second hand smoke doesn't brother me. Unless I'm working out in the gym. ;) I was a hairstylist for 14 years. Perms, bleach, hair color, and nail products smell way worse then smoke. nails are the worse. If a lady with acrylic nails is waving her hands because of the smoke smell. You should laugh at her. Because she spend 1/2 to an hour smell that nail crap before she came on board and that didn't brother her.

Truck Cruiser February 3rd, 2010 04:47 AM

To those who complain about smokers smoking on their balconies.....Most wouldn't smoke so much on their balconies if we had more places to smoke on the ship. Many smoke on their balconies just because there are so few places to relax and have a smoke elsewhere.

momofmeg February 3rd, 2010 09:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Truck Cruiser (Post 1271654)
To those who complain about smokers smoking on their balconies.....Most wouldn't smoke so much on their balconies if we had more places to smoke on the ship. Many smoke on their balconies just because there are so few places to relax and have a smoke elsewhere.

That arguement works for some lines, however Princess and HAL both allow smoking in staterooms.

I have always been a courteous neighbor. Once I had smoking neighbors on both sides of me, but it was not a problem, as I would step inside for 10 minutes while they had their smoke. This last cruise was very different,as unfortunately, my neighbor was a chain smoker, and it seemed he never left his balcony. So we paid several hundred dollars extra in cruise fare for a balcony we could not use.

Aidan February 3rd, 2010 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul B (Post 1261207)
until it outlawed, smoking is a personal right.

Interesting qualification. Smoking is the social equivalent of blasting your hotel TV in the middle of the night or passing gas in an elevator or cutting in line. Yes, it is your personal right to do it and not illegal. But it isn't socially acceptable.

However, since smoking cigarettes does involve ingesting a powerful, brain-altering, and highly addictive chemical, there are some different dynamics at play.

Cheers, Aidan

katlady February 3rd, 2010 06:55 PM

Next time someone smokes near me I'm going to pass gas.;)

Fern February 3rd, 2010 08:49 PM

roflroflrofl! Me, too!!!

Ron February 3rd, 2010 10:51 PM

Honestly. I've been reading this thread from the beginning wondering when someone was going to bring up passing gas !!:) :)
Guess now we'll have debates whether or not someone who over endulged in pepperoni pizza and beer late in the day can still play bingo without creating a " stink " in the lounge-- or the guy at the blackjack table who keeps squirming around in his seat---what's he doing??
And if someone's nose is so sensitive that smoke on someone's balcony 4 cabins down blows back on them, heaven help them when the fat guy in his boxers sitting on his balcony cuts loose with one !! ;-);-)

momofmeg February 4th, 2010 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ron (Post 1271821)
Honestly. I've been reading this thread from the beginning wondering when someone was going to bring up passing gas !!:) :)
Guess now we'll have debates whether or not someone who over endulged in pepperoni pizza and beer late in the day can still play bingo without creating a " stink " in the lounge-- or the guy at the blackjack table who keeps squirming around in his seat---what's he doing??
And if someone's nose is so sensitive that smoke on someone's balcony 4 cabins down blows back on them, heaven help them when the fat guy in his boxers sitting on his balcony cuts loose with one !! ;-);-)

My smoking neighbor was next door to me. I doubt I would have smelled it if he was 4 doors down.

Ron February 4th, 2010 11:08 PM

Good thing he didn't pass gas and smoke at the same time--he could have really made your life miserable. ;)
I was in Kroger's once and saw a " lady " jump a guy over smoking --the guy had a white ink pen in his hand and was studying a list and absent mindfully put the pen up to his mouth--the lady was a socker mom type with her 2 kids running hell west and crooked all over the store without any supervision on her part but that was no problem-- she didn't seem concerned they might get hurt, hurt someone, etc. but when she thought this guy was smoking, she suddenly became interested in the welfare of her kids-- rudely informing him the store was non smoking and she would notify management of his smoking.
He looked stunned for a minute or so and then informed her he had an ink pen in his hand not a cigarette and told her what part of his anatomy she could kiss. She looked like she could crawl under the tile on the floor and hurried off. I don't blame him for what he said to her.
Sometimes we can get a little over zealous in our police actions.
Breathing hair spray, nail polish, polish remover and assorted sprays, perfumes, etc. that people use are probably just as bad for you as getting a whiff of smoke now and then. And no, I'm a non smoker. I won't stay where it's smoky and don't want people blowing smoke in my face or my direction but being outside or on a balcony on a moving ship when someone nearby is smoking isn't a bother to me. :)

katlady February 4th, 2010 11:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fern (Post 1271799)
roflroflrofl! Me, too!!!

It was too easy I couldn't leave it alone. ;) BTW with all the chemicals in a hair salon you can pass gas silently and no one will notice. Not that I know from experience I don't fart I'm a lady I toot.:mrgreen: Like playing a little tune. I had chili for dinner tonight time to tune up the band. ;)


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