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Old January 2nd, 2012, 09:04 PM
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Default Dining Room Management Not under-paid

(Based on 2034 pax at $14 per person) If everyone tipped the recommended amount for a 14 day cruise on a Millie Class ship......Dining room management would receive $28,476.00. $2034.00 a day. Not bad pay I have no idea how many people split that amount.

I get tired of seeing many on these boards complain about and feel sorry for the so called under paid service people who work so very hard. The crew is not forced to work on the ship. They apply for a limited number of positions and know right up front approximately what they will make. If they don't like it then they do not have to take the job. If they do take the job and don't like it later...then they don't have to request contract renewal as many do. They are paid to provide a service and normally do that in an outstanding manner. Simple as that
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Old January 2nd, 2012, 09:23 PM
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Default OK I will bite

Who gives the dining room manager $14 pp pd???

Most cruise lines suggest tips to be about $11-$14 pd/pp which is shared by housekeeping staff & wait staff when you break it down to 3 meals a day plus snacks & your room cleaned twice a day not much for each crew member
it is worth every penny
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Old January 2nd, 2012, 09:40 PM
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Originally Posted by lulu48 View Post
Who gives the dining room manager $14 pp pd???

Most cruise lines suggest tips to be about $11-$14 pd/pp which is shared by housekeeping staff & wait staff when you break it down to 3 meals a day plus snacks & your room cleaned twice a day not much for each crew member
it is worth every penny
Please re-read my post...I did not say $14 pp per day. Millie class capacity is 2034 pax. Recommended tip for Dining Room Management for a 14 day cruise would be $14 pp for entire cruise. $14 X 2034 pax = $28476. Just talking about recommended tips for "Dining Room Management". Oh and by the way....did you ever think that maybe some of the thousands of dollars that you paid for your cruise might pay for some of the "3 meals a day plus snacks & your room cleaned twice a day"?
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Old January 2nd, 2012, 11:08 PM
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Sorry misread your post
I do not think everyone would tip the manager
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Old January 3rd, 2012, 11:43 AM
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I think the staff do better than we think, especially compared with average wage in the country they originate from.
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Old January 4th, 2012, 08:29 AM
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As i have stated before; I do not tip the captain, I do not tip the chief engineer or the head of security, I do not tip the hotel manager so why should I tip the maitre d'
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Old January 4th, 2012, 08:41 AM
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If for some reason, you had any issues in the dinning room and the maitre'd helped you get things resolved, may be a time to tip him, otherwise, no.
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Old January 4th, 2012, 12:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick View Post
(Based on 2034 pax at $14 per person) If everyone tipped the recommended amount for a 14 day cruise on a Millie Class ship......Dining room management would receive $28,476.00. $2034.00 a day. Not bad pay I have no idea how many people split that amount.

I get tired of seeing many on these boards complain about and feel sorry for the so called under paid service people who work so very hard. The crew is not forced to work on the ship. They apply for a limited number of positions and know right up front approximately what they will make. If they don't like it then they do not have to take the job. If they do take the job and don't like it later...then they don't have to request contract renewal as many do. They are paid to provide a service and normally do that in an outstanding manner. Simple as that
Faulty reasoning has been the undoing of many a genius.
You say that $28,476.00 is not bad pay - but then you admit that you have no idea how many split that amount.

$28.5k is indeed a great pay amount for one or two people for 14 days.
But when it is split among 24 people, it is not quite so exciting.
Or if we look at it on a monthly scale:
$57k for the month, split amongst 24 people = $2375 each per month.

These fellows are required to work 13 hours per day x 7 days. Most work longer hours than that, but let's pretend they do not.

$2375 for 390 hours of work = $6.09 per hour.
Let's not forget the $2 per hour paid to them by the cruise line.

We could solve the financial and unemployment crises in America in one fell swoop by offering these fantastic jobs to Americans.

Let's see now.........
You work 13 hours a day in multiple split shifts, 7 days per week, with no days off for 6 to 10 months straight.
You are paid no overtime.
You get paid $8.09 per hour, before taxes.
When you go home on vacation, you are officially unemployed, receiving no vacation pay, no unemployment insurance, and no medical coverage.

Sign me up!!!!!
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Old January 4th, 2012, 01:59 PM
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I can attest to the Maitre'd on Ruby Princess shops at better stores than I do.
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Old January 4th, 2012, 03:39 PM
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I have yet to understand why people have to figure out how much the staff on ships are paid
I wonder if you ask the servers in your local restaurant how much they make before you decide to tip


If you want to tip... fine,
if you do not want to tip... fine
It is a personal choice

No one asks me how much I make & if they did I would tell them

NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS

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Old January 4th, 2012, 04:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Bruce Chafkin1 View Post
Faulty reasoning has been the undoing of many a genius.
You say that $28,476.00 is not bad pay - but then you admit that you have no idea how many split that amount.

$28.5k is indeed a great pay amount for one or two people for 14 days.
But when it is split among 24 people, it is not quite so exciting.
Or if we look at it on a monthly scale:
$57k for the month, split amongst 24 people = $2375 each per month.

These fellows are required to work 13 hours per day x 7 days. Most work longer hours than that, but let's pretend they do not.

$2375 for 390 hours of work = $6.09 per hour.
Let's not forget the $2 per hour paid to them by the cruise line.

We could solve the financial and unemployment crises in America in one fell swoop by offering these fantastic jobs to Americans.

Let's see now.........
You work 13 hours a day in multiple split shifts, 7 days per week, with no days off for 6 to 10 months straight.
You are paid no overtime.
You get paid $8.09 per hour, before taxes.
When you go home on vacation, you are officially unemployed, receiving no vacation pay, no unemployment insurance, and no medical coverage.

Sign me up!!!!!
Are crew members forced into working on a cruise ship? Of course not.... Find other work if not satisfied with the job.
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Old January 4th, 2012, 04:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Donna View Post
If for some reason, you had any issues in the dinning room and the maitre'd helped you get things resolved, may be a time to tip him, otherwise, no.

Same here.

But if you pre pay tips, then you are tipping the maitre'd. Also, now that Celebrity automatically adds tips daily to your onboard account, then you tip the maitre d unless you go to guest relations and have the daily tip amount adjusted. From what I read on these boards, when you do that, it affects all service personnel because tips are pooled. So if tips are pooled ,I would think we are tipping the maitre d regardless if we want to or not.
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Old January 4th, 2012, 05:30 PM
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That math may work, but lets not forget the people that skip tipping all together, subtract that into the formula and see how much they actually make...
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Old January 4th, 2012, 06:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Donna View Post
That math may work, but lets not forget the people that skip tipping all together, subtract that into the formula and see how much they actually make...

I don't care how much they make as I said above. Sometimes I think that they should just do away with "recommended tips" and just charge everyone a service charge. Oh btw we hope everyone has a great New Year!
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Old January 4th, 2012, 06:27 PM
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It IS a service charge..that's it really.
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Old January 4th, 2012, 07:22 PM
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Rick,
Yes, I totally agree, the tips should be built into the cruise price. After I booked Allure of the Seas, because I got the anytime dinning, because that was all that was left, they charge you the tips on your cruisebill, so it is taken care of when you make that final payment. Yes, it appears to make your cruise price higher, but you would or should pay at least the recommended amounts once onboard. This way it is done and you don't have to worry about tipping anyone, they provide you with vouchers to pass out.
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Old January 4th, 2012, 08:12 PM
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Rick,
Yes, I totally agree, the tips should be built into the cruise price. After I booked Allure of the Seas, because I got the anytime dinning, because that was all that was left, they charge you the tips on your cruisebill, so it is taken care of when you make that final payment. Yes, it appears to make your cruise price higher, but you would or should pay at least the recommended amounts once onboard. This way it is done and you don't have to worry about tipping anyone, they provide you with vouchers to pass out.
Absolutely! One less admin thing to deal with while enjoying your cruise. We have always tipped Traditional but decided this time to prepay. I hope Celebrity will provide us with vouchers to pass out, although I don't think they do. If not, I do not know how they would know you did or did not tip.
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Old January 5th, 2012, 10:42 AM
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Are crew members forced into working on a cruise ship? Of course not.... Find other work if not satisfied with the job.
Rick,

There was never a question of crew members being forced to work on ships. We are not. That's very clear to everyone.

There was never a question of crew members satisfied with working on ships. We are happy with our jobs. That's very clear to everyone.

The only question here is the one YOU raised with your post. You quoted a large amount of tip money, called it "not bad pay", then admitted that you had no idea how many people had to split that "not bad pay". Do you see any faulty reasoning there?

One of the few issues that upsets us on ships is some financial genius quoting numbers he knows nothing about, and then making some guess - usually very wrong - about how much money we make, then telling us to get another job if we are unhappy with his wrong assumptions.

Why don't you tell us all about YOUR salary?
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Old January 5th, 2012, 11:04 AM
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Bruce I see what you mean, but from a passenger's point of view even with P&O's lower recommended rates, two people giving a room steward 6+ a day multiplied by maybe 20 cabins works out to 3,600 a month, seems an awful lot of money to me, + whatever wages are received is more than I have ever earned & that is before taxation! We have no idea who if anyone he shares it with or if it just goes in a big pot to be shared out anyway.
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Old January 5th, 2012, 12:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Bruce Chafkin1 View Post
Rick,

There was never a question of crew members being forced to work on ships. We are not. That's very clear to everyone.

There was never a question of crew members satisfied with working on ships. We are happy with our jobs. That's very clear to everyone.

The only question here is the one YOU raised with your post. You quoted a large amount of tip money, called it "not bad pay", then admitted that you had no idea how many people had to split that "not bad pay". Do you see any faulty reasoning there?

One of the few issues that upsets us on ships is some financial genius quoting numbers he knows nothing about, and then making some guess - usually very wrong - about how much money we make, then telling us to get another job if we are unhappy with his wrong assumptions.

Why don't you tell us all about YOUR salary?
If you are happy with your job, then whats the issue? AGAIN The main purpose of my post was to say I am tired of seeing posts saying how under-paid, over-worked and under appreciated the servce people are on cruise ships. Welcome to the world of working with the public. I think that overall, the service people do a fine job which they get paid to do.

I used Dining Room Management just as an as an example. No I don't know how many split it.....but being dining room management, I would think the maitre's and 2 assts. Bruce, I wish I was a financial genius. My salary ....I am just a typical under-paid, over taxed, over-worked and under appreciated guy as we all are. Our main pleasure is looking forward to our cruise each year. Keep up the good work, we really do appreciate it.
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Old January 12th, 2012, 01:37 PM
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Bruce I see what you mean, but from a passenger's point of view even with P&O's lower recommended rates, two people giving a room steward 6+ a day multiplied by maybe 20 cabins works out to 3,600 a month, seems an awful lot of money to me, + whatever wages are received is more than I have ever earned & that is before taxation! We have no idea who if anyone he shares it with or if it just goes in a big pot to be shared out anyway.
I dont believe for a minute that cruise line employees get anywhere this type of salary. On P&O, most of the crew especially in the dining rooms/ lido are from Goa, and I find it very hard to believe that over a nine month contract, (as the wait staff have on P&O), their salary is so so high. Anyhow, if they do get this amount, well done to them. They work their ass off. Listen to plenty of bull every day and never stop smiling !! What lovely people they are..... Dont like P&O, but the wait staff are nice
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Old January 12th, 2012, 03:58 PM
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They certainly deserve a reward for having to listen to all the crap that passengers come out with, people seem to confuse genuine interest with being told to stop & listen if passengers want to talk. They have heard it all before, but the new passengers have not heard the stories about their wife & children back home & how they miss them & how poor they are...
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Old January 15th, 2012, 03:18 PM
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the new passengers have not heard the stories about their wife & children back home & how they miss them & how poor they are...
Agreed.
Then we reply to the new passengers posts after their third or fourth cruise, when they start to question everything and compare !

Oh darling, will we ever learn.
never compare. Just enjoy the moment

Last edited by Lynn Knickers; January 15th, 2012 at 03:18 PM. Reason: loss Libra
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Old January 18th, 2012, 05:50 PM
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Bruce I see what you mean, but from a passenger's point of view even with P&O's lower recommended rates, two people giving a room steward 6+ a day multiplied by maybe 20 cabins works out to 3,600 a month, seems an awful lot of money to me, + whatever wages are received is more than I have ever earned & that is before taxation! We have no idea who if anyone he shares it with or if it just goes in a big pot to be shared out anyway.
John,

Good point. The cruise lines do not explain to passengers how wages are computed, shared nor earned. The company you work for probably does not explain to your clients how your wages are computed, shared, nor earned.
There are two slight differences.
1. The product your company produces probably has your wages built into the price of the product. The cruise lines have followed the original idea from the White Star Line (1912) of adding the wages after the purchase of the product.
In both cases the customer pays the wages; one indirectly, one directly.

2. You get to keep most of your wages - except for taxes. Cruise line employees have always shared their wages with many other people. In the old days when we received cash in envelopes, we had to tip the dishwashers to keep an eye on our cutlery, the laundry staff to deliver our clean sheets and table cloths in a timely manner, the cleaners who vaccumed and mopped, the sailors who assisted in cleaning cabins and carrying suitcases, the aassistant waiters and assistant stateroom stewards, the list goes on and on.
Today when you are charged a daily tip, all that money goes into a pool. All the people we used to tip directly now get a share of that pool.

Whatever the amount you think you are tipping a steward, he gets to keep only a small fraction of that money. That's the way it has always been.

The one BIG change however is the amount that is being tipped. Thirty years ago, the average daily tip given was over US$25 per person.
Today, thirty years later - without factoring in inflation - the average tip is less than half of that. But the same number of crewmembers are getting a share of that now much smaller pie.

Can you imaging working for an industry where your salary is reduced every year for three decades, until it is less than half of where you started?
Then at the same time, you have customers claiming that you are well compensated?

Is it any wonder that the best service people in the cruise industry quit long ago because they could no longer afford to work on ships?
Next time you have a service issue on a ship, wonder why the waiter is not very good, or ask why there are not more crew to take care of you, you will know the answer.
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Old January 22nd, 2012, 01:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Bruce Chafkin1 View Post
Is it any wonder that the best service people in the cruise industry quit long ago because they could no longer afford to work on ships?
Next time you have a service issue on a ship, wonder why the waiter is not very good, or ask why there are not more crew to take care of you, you will know the answer.
Great post, and could not agree more.

I have often said on this and other forums, that service compared to the past is now lacking. However, because the great fantastic service of yesteryear is gone, this is "not" the fault of the excellent wait staff or can steward who now serve us on board. They do their job as they are told to do it. However hard they work, and they do work hard, they deserve every penny and cent they earn. I always compliment their hard work and always tip accordingly.

Last edited by Lynn Knickers; January 22nd, 2012 at 01:29 PM. Reason: LibraLoss
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