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  #1 (permalink)  
Old June 3rd, 2012, 07:21 PM
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Default some new charges

I thought I would post this as a joke...but also because more and more it seems like the cruise lines are starting to charge for things that use to be free...such as on Royal Carribean they started to charge for Late night room service...what a joke...here are other charges that cruise lines can start :

Charge a nominal fee for the use of the pool
$5 Fee per towel at the pool
service fee for the MDR
$5.00 fee each time a steward cleans you room
For a after dinner show a nominal fee will be added to your room
$5 fee each time you disembark
$5 fee each time you embark
A one time fee for the use of a sail and sign card
$10 fee for the use of the fitness room

Another area is the automatic tipping system.
I do understand and have seen that many people who demanded everything in the MDR, would never show up for the last dinner just so they didnt have to tip..I find that those people who commit that act are selfish, undeserving of the finer things in life. I for the most part I am conventional when it comes to tipping...usually 20%. But I also feel that if service was not near what I expected then I should'nt have to give 20%..I also do understand that you can adjust the tip by going to the purser...But I would find that to be uneasy and not pleasent...This can be a very subjective area. it also can depend on what a person who normally tips no matter how good or bad the service was. what one person feels is ok another might not. IMO I would rather leave in cash what I feel the person derserved...I do believe that a tip is earned and not taken for granted...if service is horrible I have no guilt in leaving nothing...But on the other hand I have givin very hefty tips to excellent service.
Which brings me to a point of another area that is very subjective...Why are restaurants not paying their waiters and waitresses a decent living wage so they dont have to rely on tips...why are the people who patronize a business the ones who have to support the employee...I have always believed that the restaurant should provide a decent wage not the customer. I believe that the number of people who agree with the statement that the business should provide a decent wage is the same or close to the amount of people that think the customer should provide the major funds for the employee.
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Old June 3rd, 2012, 08:44 PM
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Buttons,

Oh, don't be giving these cruise lines new ideas for charges..In 6 mos, we'll be seeing them on our bills!! I just hate being nickled and dimed to death!! I also agree that auto charging for the tipping seems..Just inappropriate. In fact, the first time it happened to me, I was unaware that they were going to do it!! Did not realize until I checked my bill and inquired. I was a bit put off by it since I had only gone to the MDR twice on that cruise. I realize the tips are also for the stewards, etc..But I had already given out all my tips before realizing I had been charged for them already!! So I got double dipped...I did not know I could request to have them removed either.

Like you, I see them starting to add little charges..Here, there and everywhere for every little thing..Some people may get tired of it eventually and stop cruising certain lines because of it. Honestly, I feel certain lines have intentionally made their MDR and buffet food below par in order to force folks to pay extra for their other restaurant offerings. I mean, we have no other choices for food..If we want something decent..We have NO CHOICE but to pay the extra money for it. Let's face it folks, they can afford to offer us a decent steak once a week rather than serving us Luby's cafeteria food and charging extra to go to the steakhouse..It sucks that I feel they have intentionally made the food "no so great" so that we'll pay more for their "optional" restaurants. Optional my eye!! $35-$50 pp extra for a meal is not a lot to some..But for the working class guy, it probably is. If he has to come up with that every night for a decent meal for his wife..Ugh.

In sum, I feel that all but the most expensive cruise lines have really let most of their food offerings go by the wayside..Getting worse and worse every year (based on many reviews, not just my own subjective opinion..look around). We're paying for a cruise..For many, half of that experience is of tasting new delights - not getting cafeteria tasting food, waiting 45 minutes for a refill on iced tea in the MDR..ETC. I realize they are all out to make a profit, but they may wind up cutting their own noses off their faces out of sheer greed!!

Just my 2 cents.
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Old June 3rd, 2012, 09:03 PM
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When Celebrity charges $999 for a balcony on an 11 day med cruise, I couldn't care less about extra charges. Adding a couple of Specialty Restaurants and drink packages still make this a super cheap vacation. And really? Is the food in Celebrity's main dining room that bad that I'm forced to eat elsewhere, I'm thinking not.

We mainly sail Princess and of our 10 cruises with them, the most recent 2 have had the best food.

I'm in the camp of keep the base prices low and pay for extras. Back in 1997 we took an 11 day Caribbean cruise on RCL for around $2,200 pp, now I can take an 11 day on Celebrity in an S class for $999? No issues whatsoever with the direction the cruiselines are going.
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Old June 3rd, 2012, 09:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Trackypup View Post
When Celebrity charges $999 for a balcony on an 11 day med cruise, I couldn't care less about extra charges. Adding a couple of Specialty Restaurants and drink packages still make this a super cheap vacation. And really? Is the food in Celebrity's main dining room that bad that I'm forced to eat elsewhere, I'm thinking not.

We mainly sail Princess and of our 10 cruises with them, the most recent 2 have had the best food.

I'm in the camp of keep the base prices low and pay for extras. Back in 1997 we took an 11 day Caribbean cruise on RCL for around $2,200 pp, now I can take an 11 day on Celebrity in an S class for $999? No issues whatsoever with the direction the cruiselines are going.
For the first time I like some of your points of view...but IMHO dont agree on some issues.
I checked Celebrity cruises web site...unless I am missing something some off peak Varanda cabins were going for 1300 plus...alot going for 2000 and some going for close to 3000.

I have booked a cruise on Crystal for the end of the year...while it is true that I have not been on a cruise in some time due to deaths in my family and other issues...everything I have read including this site was that though the food is better then most other cruise lines (Other then the high end lines) the food has somewhat declined...which makes me think that though it probaly is pretty good, if you want the standard of years back then you would need to book a specialty restaurant. My issue is that if I had booked a cruise on Celebrity and remember how the food was years back, I would be dissapointed by the somewhat lower standard enforced now.

I even though will pay a higher fare on Crystal, I like the idea that just about everything is included, I guess it is what a person prefers and is willing to pay.
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Old June 3rd, 2012, 09:48 PM
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Originally Posted by snorklr45 View Post
Buttons,

Oh, don't be giving these cruise lines new ideas for charges..In 6 mos, we'll be seeing them on our bills!! I just hate being nickled and dimed to death!! I also agree that auto charging for the tipping seems..Just inappropriate. In fact, the first time it happened to me, I was unaware that they were going to do it!! Did not realize until I checked my bill and inquired. I was a bit put off by it since I had only gone to the MDR twice on that cruise. I realize the tips are also for the stewards, etc..But I had already given out all my tips before realizing I had been charged for them already!! So I got double dipped...I did not know I could request to have them removed either.

Like you, I see them starting to add little charges..Here, there and everywhere for every little thing..Some people may get tired of it eventually and stop cruising certain lines because of it. Honestly, I feel certain lines have intentionally made their MDR and buffet food below par in order to force folks to pay extra for their other restaurant offerings. I mean, we have no other choices for food..If we want something decent..We have NO CHOICE but to pay the extra money for it. Let's face it folks, they can afford to offer us a decent steak once a week rather than serving us Luby's cafeteria food and charging extra to go to the steakhouse..It sucks that I feel they have intentionally made the food "no so great" so that we'll pay more for their "optional" restaurants. Optional my eye!! $35-$50 pp extra for a meal is not a lot to some..But for the working class guy, it probably is. If he has to come up with that every night for a decent meal for his wife..Ugh.

In sum, I feel that all but the most expensive cruise lines have really let most of their food offerings go by the wayside..Getting worse and worse every year (based on many reviews, not just my own subjective opinion..look around). We're paying for a cruise..For many, half of that experience is of tasting new delights - not getting cafeteria tasting food, waiting 45 minutes for a refill on iced tea in the MDR..ETC. I realize they are all out to make a profit, but they may wind up cutting their own noses off their faces out of sheer greed!!

Just my 2 cents.
I have to agree on just about everything you have stated in this post...I find that the cruise lines are getting desperate trying to figure out more ways of nickle and diming.

I find it offensive that they are starting to put fast food chains on cruise ships and then have to pay extra besides...I would never cruise on a ship that has fast food joints. Why eat something that you can have every single day of your life...plus all you have to do is disembark at just about any port in the world and get fast food...I find that offensive.

Royal Carribean is really pushing the envelope...charging for late night room service is an all time low. Their food is sub par to begin with...now if you order late at night you have to pay...unreal and unacceptable.
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Old June 3rd, 2012, 09:59 PM
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For the first time I like some of your points of view...but IMHO dont agree on some issues.
I checked Celebrity cruises web site...unless I am missing something some off peak Varanda cabins were going for 1300 plus...alot going for 2000 and some going for close to 3000.

I have booked a cruise on Crystal for the end of the year...while it is true that I have not been on a cruise in some time due to deaths in my family and other issues...everything I have read including this site was that though the food is better then most other cruise lines (Other then the high end lines) the food has somewhat declined...which makes me think that though it probaly is pretty good, if you want the standard of years back then you would need to book a specialty restaurant. My issue is that if I had booked a cruise on Celebrity and remember how the food was years back, I would be dissapointed by the somewhat lower standard enforced now.

I even though will pay a higher fare on Crystal, I like the idea that just about everything is included, I guess it is what a person prefers and is willing to pay.

We booked about a month ago at $999 for a balcony guarantee for a September sailing, we did receive a pretty good cabin but it was a bit far aft. We were able to upgrade to an A1 balcony with a 3x the size deck at $1,139...I think that category is currently going for $1,169.

We also have Royal Princess's 18 Day Transatlantic booked out of Venice... $2,200 for a Deluxe Balcony for 18 day with I think about $375 in OBC. I don't honestly think there's been a better time to cruise than there is right now.

Even with my Celebrity Cruise... let's go with the $1,139 add in a Classic Drink Package of $500 (on sale right now) that's only $1,639 per person. The cabin came with $100 OBC, that'll take care of a specialty restaurant charge and then some. You really can't beat the deals out there right now. With that price, am I really going to care that there's a nominal charge for room service late at night? Not even close.
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Old June 3rd, 2012, 10:07 PM
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Originally Posted by buttons16 View Post
I thought I would post this as a joke...but also because more and more it seems like the cruise lines are starting to charge for things that use to be free...such as on Royal Carribean they started to charge for Late night room service...what a joke...here are other charges that cruise lines can start :

Charge a nominal fee for the use of the pool
$5 Fee per towel at the pool
service fee for the MDR
$5.00 fee each time a steward cleans you room
For a after dinner show a nominal fee will be added to your room
$5 fee each time you disembark
$5 fee each time you embark
A one time fee for the use of a sail and sign card
$10 fee for the use of the fitness room

Another area is the automatic tipping system.
I do understand and have seen that many people who demanded everything in the MDR, would never show up for the last dinner just so they didnt have to tip..I find that those people who commit that act are selfish, undeserving of the finer things in life. I for the most part I am conventional when it comes to tipping...usually 20%. But I also feel that if service was not near what I expected then I should'nt have to give 20%..I also do understand that you can adjust the tip by going to the purser...But I would find that to be uneasy and not pleasent...This can be a very subjective area. it also can depend on what a person who normally tips no matter how good or bad the service was. what one person feels is ok another might not. IMO I would rather leave in cash what I feel the person derserved...I do believe that a tip is earned and not taken for granted...if service is horrible I have no guilt in leaving nothing...But on the other hand I have givin very hefty tips to excellent service.
Which brings me to a point of another area that is very subjective...Why are restaurants not paying their waiters and waitresses a decent living wage so they dont have to rely on tips...why are the people who patronize a business the ones who have to support the employee...I have always believed that the restaurant should provide a decent wage not the customer. I believe that the number of people who agree with the statement that the business should provide a decent wage is the same or close to the amount of people that think the customer should provide the major funds for the employee.
How about re-instating a few of the OLD charges we used to make you pay?
--Transatlantic liners always charged for daily use of deck chairs.
--RMS Titanic's First Class Dining Room was not included in the fare. Dinner cost an average of $100 per person per night. In that year - 1912 - the average American earned $300 per year.

In 1975, when I started working for Royal Viking Line, a 7-day Mexican Riviera cruise in an outside cabin (we had no balconies in those days) cost as much as a new Cadillac. Let's start charging the price of a new Cadillac again today. Then we will no longer attract the type of cruiser who cares what anything costs.
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Old June 3rd, 2012, 10:38 PM
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How about re-instating a few of the OLD charges we used to make you pay?
--Transatlantic liners always charged for daily use of deck chairs.
--RMS Titanic's First Class Dining Room was not included in the fare. Dinner cost an average of $100 per person per night. In that year - 1912 - the average American earned $300 per year.

In 1975, when I started working for Royal Viking Line, a 7-day Mexican Riviera cruise in an outside cabin (we had no balconies in those days) cost as much as a new Cadillac. Let's start charging the price of a new Cadillac again today. Then we will no longer attract the type of cruiser who cares what anything costs.
I have searched the web and found no instance of any charge of an average $100 per person per night...First class dinner meals were 10 or 11 course meals that would last close to 3 hours. The rental fee of a deck chair and a blanket on the Titanic cost 1 pound. Also keep in mind that if it did cost $100 per person to have dinner, that would have probaly been 1st class...and the only people in first class were extremely rich people...millionares and billionares.

The Titanic was one of the first of the luxury cruise liners.
Your numbers might be off a bit...the average american made closer to $1033 per year not $300...A home cost $2750....average car was $941....a gallon of gas was 7 cents....as for Viking charging the cost of a caddy in 1975 I have not found info yet on that...But I find that number very hard to swallow.......The cheapest Caddy made in 1975 was the Eldorado model number 71-693 6 passenger and sold before tax, tags and license....$7751...I find your statement that a 7 day Viking cruise was high as that. There were at the time I believe only 3 ships...all info that I have found stated that none of the 3 ships did a Mexican Riviera 7 day cruise.

Last edited by buttons16; June 3rd, 2012 at 11:07 PM.
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Old June 3rd, 2012, 11:11 PM
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Bruce I would appriciate it if you can direct me to a web page that supports your claim of the price of Royal Viking Cruise...I seem some what interested.
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Old June 3rd, 2012, 11:25 PM
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Bruce I would appriciate it if you can direct me to a web page that supports your claim of the price of Royal Viking Cruise...I seem some what interested.
Bruce is probably speaking from experience, not a web page. He manages cruise ships and has been in the business a long time.
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Old June 3rd, 2012, 11:51 PM
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I know that bruce is speaking from experience.

I remember an Atlantic crossing when you had to pay for deck chairs.

These days I cruise to enjoy the experience and not to whine.

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Old June 4th, 2012, 12:21 AM
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Bruce I would appriciate it if you can direct me to a web page that supports your claim of the price of Royal Viking Cruise...I seem some what interested.
Sorry.
I'm a Hotel Manager - not a secretary.
Try Google.
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Old June 4th, 2012, 07:31 AM
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Wow, talk about nickeling and diming you, some of these charges would be totally off the wall, I sure hope it doesn't come to this...
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Old June 4th, 2012, 08:16 AM
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Actually some of these are still not far from the truth.

Oceania (I think) rents on deck "cabanas" by the cruise or by the day
NCL is ticketing some of their shows on Epic - are they charging for Blue Man Group
"Gratuities" on some lines are no longer optional - though for other lines they are no longer billed - that covers your service fee for room cleaning and the MDR.
Cunard still has class dining based on the cabin you book.
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Old June 4th, 2012, 10:42 AM
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I know that bruce is speaking from experience.

I remember an Atlantic crossing when you had to pay for deck chairs.

These days I cruise to enjoy the experience and not to whine.

TM
Ifyou read my post, I stated that the Titanic charged 1 pound for a blanket and deck chair rental.
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Old June 4th, 2012, 10:46 AM
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Sorry.
I'm a Hotel Manager - not a secretary.
Try Google.
Well you did say that the price of a Mexican 7 day cruise was well over $7000...in 1975, I would just like to read something on that...

As far as you not being secretary, really does'nt matter...I thought if you posted that the price of a Royal Viking cruise was that high you would be able to let us know where we can research that.. nothing on google i tried that.

However your figure of 300 average pay for the American worker per year in 1912 was way off...

Last edited by buttons16; June 4th, 2012 at 11:02 AM.
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Old June 4th, 2012, 11:00 AM
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Actually some of these are still not far from the truth.

Oceania (I think) rents on deck "cabanas" by the cruise or by the day
NCL is ticketing some of their shows on Epic - are they charging for Blue Man Group
"Gratuities" on some lines are no longer optional - though for other lines they are no longer billed - that covers your service fee for room cleaning and the MDR.
Cunard still has class dining based on the cabin you book.
Pretty soon they will charge for all MDR food and all shows after dinner. Yes the price of the cruise is somewhat affordable...but when you are nickle and dimed on everything , you in the long run end up paying what the cruise wanted you to pay in the first place..And that when the cruises being known as a bargain will end, yet people still dont want the fare to increase...what difference does it make if the fare does not increase but everything on board will cost you, from eating to watching a show to renting a deck chair (coming soon to a ship you love) I know the difference and that is when you pay the higher fare you are not squeezed for every little thing on board, but when you want to pay a lower fare you will keep taking out your sail and sign card and keep swipping away...I do have an idea though.

Since their are so many people split on this subject why not adopt this idea:
For the people who want to pay a lower rate.. they will not be issued a special card that exempts them from paying all the extra fees on board...meaning lets say a basic cruise cost 1000 per person (not involving the high end market) and the optional add on cruise costs 1500...by paying the higher rate you get a special encoded card only when you first embark onto the ship.. that card allows you to not have to pay for all drinks, specialty restaurants, sort of like an all inclusive cruise....The numbers I came up with is just a ball park figure nothing is set in stone...I tend to kind of like the idea...

Sure people will still cruise, its because we love the experience, but I just hate to be nickle and diming...and now that NCL has crossed the line by charging for certain shows and Royal Carribean charging for late night room service the extra pay for other things that were always free is just around the corner..
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Old June 4th, 2012, 11:35 AM
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Is it really any different from what's happening with land resorts? Most are adding "resort fees" and they're not optional. In Hawaii last month, it was $200 for a cabana by the pool, $30 for a beach umbrella and a chair, $20 for the Hula show. It's not just restricted to cruising.

Some lines like Oceania and Celebrity have added drink packages so you can make it an all inclusive cruise. Want to eat in a specialty restaurant every night, book Aqua Class or book and pay for your Specialty Restaurants every night before you leave.

To the OP, you haven't cruised in 7 years, things really aren't that bad...go have fun
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Old June 4th, 2012, 11:49 AM
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Is it really any different from what's happening with land resorts? Most are adding "resort fees" and they're not optional. In Hawaii last month, it was $200 for a cabana by the pool, $30 for a beach umbrella and a chair, $20 for the Hula show. It's not just restricted to cruising.

Some lines like Oceania and Celebrity have added drink packages so you can make it an all inclusive cruise. Want to eat in a specialty restaurant every night, book Aqua Class or book and pay for your Specialty Restaurants every night before you leave.

To the OP, you haven't cruised in 7 years, things really aren't that bad...go have fun
It doesnt matter if I have'nt cruised in 7 years or 7 days... for the most part its all the same..early, late dining or when you want dining..then a show maybe dance...the casino..am I right...maybe a after dinner drink, a dance...wake up have breakfast, a tour on shore...what really changed in 7 years other then the quality slipping.
I have been running my business...I also had to deal with deaths in family and other issues..which is why I "could'nt have fun" as you put it...

I have booked a cruise on Crystal, and I will be thinking about selling my company by the end of the year...I just can't see myself retired at 54 years old.

And with the profits these companies make...soda (which I never drink) should be free...over 4 Billion profit for Carnival in one year and paid hardly any taxes...but lets keep charging the passenger and maybe we can rake in 5 billion this year...amazing.

Last edited by buttons16; June 4th, 2012 at 11:56 AM.
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Old June 4th, 2012, 12:03 PM
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And with the profits these companies make...soda (which I never drink) should be free...over 4 Billion profit for Carnival in one year and paid hardly any taxes...but lets keep charging the passenger and maybe we can rake in 5 billion this year...amazing.
Keep in mind when you're looking at profits at Carnival, you're looking at the Corporation, so across all lines,Costa, Princess, HAL, Cunard, Carnival, Seabourn, etc. I don't obviously have the final numbers, but Concordia is expected to wipe out a huge percentage of those profits this year.

They're a public company, they have a duty to their shareholders, want a piece of the pie? buy stock.
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Old June 4th, 2012, 12:14 PM
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Keep in mind when you're looking at profits at Carnival, you're looking at the Corporation, so across all lines,Costa, Princess, HAL, Cunard, Carnival, Seabourn, etc. I don't obviously have the final numbers, but Concordia is expected to wipe out a huge percentage of those profits this year.

They're a public company, they have a duty to their shareholders, want a piece of the pie? buy stock.
You know something...I will not lower my self to your level anymore...I showed you that Carnival Corporation made over 4 Billion profit in one year and use loop holes to pay hardly any tax.. it is all greed, I see no matter what point I bring up or no matter what I show you in black and white it is always a nasty comment from you...you tell me to buy stock if I want a piece of the pie..Why would you even make a statement like that to me...I dont need it miss...I run my own company..I can retire if I choose at 54 and not worry about money ok...I make a point about the profit Carnival makes, and the low taxes it pays because we were discussing the cruise lines cut in service....I DISMISS YOU, I will not respond to any more of your posts....you win ok...you win..you are a very nasty person who seems like all you want to do is sit in front of the computer all day and wait for me to post something so you can make an argument...Thankfully I return to my business tomorrow, so you can leave your little computer because I will be working so you dont have to worry about me posting, I have more important things to do tomorrow. So now find some else to bother...now where is that button to ignore you.

You always make an argument..never do you confront anyone else..wow the ignore button really works..all her posts are gone...

Last edited by buttons16; June 4th, 2012 at 12:30 PM.
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Old June 4th, 2012, 12:34 PM
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How could you possibly get enraged with what I said? If you're a shareholder you get OBC.
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Old June 5th, 2012, 10:31 AM
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Geez, come on guys. Play nice! Buttons16, you do not need to attack everything others say!

Last edited by Haimia; June 5th, 2012 at 10:44 AM.
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Old June 5th, 2012, 03:17 PM
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I have to admit that sadly it's been 10 yrs since our last cruise and the "nickle and diming" wasn't as bad as it obviously is now. But nobody twisted my arm at the time. If they're charging for something you think they shouldn't? Don't buy it. As for chain restaurants on ships, don't eat there.
It's pretty simple really.
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Old June 5th, 2012, 09:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buttons16 View Post
Which brings me to a point of another area that is very subjective...Why are restaurants not paying their waiters and waitresses a decent living wage so they dont have to rely on tips...why are the people who patronize a business the ones who have to support the employee...
Oh my oh my. Here we go again.

Economics 101: THE PEOPLE WHO PATRONIZE A BUSINESS ARE THE ONES WHO PAY THE EMPLOYEES! THEY ALSO PAY THE LIGHT BILL, THE COST OF MATERIALS FOR THE MEAL, THE PRICE OF SILVERWARE AND PLATES, AND ALL THE OVERHEAD. RESTAURANTS AND CRUISE LINES ARE BOTH IN BUSINESS TO MAKE A PROFIT. PROFIT = NET INCOME - EXPENSES.

The owner of the business is not paying employees out of his pocket. He is paying them out of the money he collects from the customer. So basically the choice is this: You pay more for your meal, and the owner pays the servers more out of that. OR you pay for your meal, and then by means of the tip system YOU get to decide how much the server earns. When you say,
Quote:
.I do believe that a tip is earned and not taken for granted...if service is horrible I have no guilt in leaving nothing...But on the other hand I have givin very hefty tips to excellent service.
you would lose that option if the owner raised the salaries of the servers.

So you really have to decide which philosophy you espouse. But you are expressing both sides of the story in one post!
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Old June 5th, 2012, 09:29 PM
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Question Nickel and Dime

HMMM --

We first cruised in 1972 on Royal Caribbean. We have continued over all those years.

Today they charge extra for the specialty restaurants. In 1972 they didn't have them.

Today they charge extra for the Thermal Suite and the Sanctuary. In 1972 they didn't have them.

Today they charge extra for the fancy ice cream parlor. In 1972 they didn't have them.

Today they charge extra for wine tastings. In 1972 they didn't have them.

Today they charge extra for cooking classes and computer classes. In 1972 they didn't have them.

The fact is that on that cruise we enjoyed so much in 1972, there were many fewer things to do than there are now. The cruise lines have added many free activities, and a few that are extra charge. But I really can't think of anything that was included in 1972 that is now charged for. Almost all the "nickel and dime" is offered IN ADDITION to the basic cruise experience.

Optional tipping has indeed been replaced by the "service charge." This is saving me money, because we almost always got outstanding service and tipped quite a bit more than the recommended minimum.
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Old June 6th, 2012, 09:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Haimia View Post
Geez, come on guys. Play nice! Buttons16, you do not need to attack everything others say!
No kidding! It seems you ( Buttons16) have a big issue with the cruise industry and that's fine but we here post for the most part because we love cruising and it does get old listening to the same complaint over and over again. We’re all aware of the extra charges but my gosh move on already!
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Old June 7th, 2012, 05:17 PM
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Originally Posted by MercedMike View Post
Oh my oh my. Here we go again.

Economics 101: THE PEOPLE WHO PATRONIZE A BUSINESS ARE THE ONES WHO PAY THE EMPLOYEES! THEY ALSO PAY THE LIGHT BILL, THE COST OF MATERIALS FOR THE MEAL, THE PRICE OF SILVERWARE AND PLATES, AND ALL THE OVERHEAD. RESTAURANTS AND CRUISE LINES ARE BOTH IN BUSINESS TO MAKE A PROFIT. PROFIT = NET INCOME - EXPENSES.

The owner of the business is not paying employees out of his pocket. He is paying them out of the money he collects from the customer. So basically the choice is this: You pay more for your meal, and the owner pays the servers more out of that. OR you pay for your meal, and then by means of the tip system YOU get to decide how much the server earns. When you say,

you would lose that option if the owner raised the salaries of the servers.

So you really have to decide which philosophy you espouse. But you are expressing both sides of the story in one post!
Not sure what you mean by oh my oh my here we go again?

I at this time have to disagree with you because I dont believe I am taking both sides, If you will allow me, I shall explaine my view:
I stated why is the customer the one responsible for giving a server a fair wage, why isnt the restaurant responsible. Why is the restaurant putting the problem of giving a server a decent wage on the customer.
If the statement you made holds true ("The owner of the business is not paying the employee out of his pocket") Then why do other places of business give at least Min wage such as Home Depot, K Mart , any Supermarket, Target and all the other places of business, why do these companies give min wage and restaurants don't have to follow that standard.
See I did that without shouting like you did in your post.
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Old June 7th, 2012, 07:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MercedMike View Post
HMMM --

We first cruised in 1972 on Royal Caribbean. We have continued over all those years.

Today they charge extra for the specialty restaurants. In 1972 they didn't have them.

Today they charge extra for the Thermal Suite and the Sanctuary. In 1972 they didn't have them.

Today they charge extra for the fancy ice cream parlor. In 1972 they didn't have them.

Today they charge extra for wine tastings. In 1972 they didn't have them.

Today they charge extra for cooking classes and computer classes. In 1972 they didn't have them.

The fact is that on that cruise we enjoyed so much in 1972, there were many fewer things to do than there are now. The cruise lines have added many free activities, and a few that are extra charge. But I really can't think of anything that was included in 1972 that is now charged for. Almost all the "nickel and dime" is offered IN ADDITION to the basic cruise experience.

Optional tipping has indeed been replaced by the "service charge." This is saving me money, because we almost always got outstanding service and tipped quite a bit more than the recommended minimum.

MercedMike...we haven't cruise as long as you have, but appreciate reading your response. Boy, cruising has come a long way.

We enjoy having the option of the extra amenities even at additional cost...although most of the time the additional cost is minimal considering what is offered. But the basic cruise experience is often enough..plenty of free things to do, and certainly plenty of food choices.

The specialty restaurants are a personal favorite for us. We could NEVER afford the kind of food and service locally that is offer on board ship at such a minimal cost. We've never once felt cheated. And we've never been forced in any way to go to one of these restaurants either. In fact, you need reservations. Some passengers making reservations online for the most popular restaurants before they board the ship. I don't think there is a lot of evidence that passengers feel these restaurants are a money making scam.

Many extra-pay options actually add to the Cruise experience IF the passenger choses to take advantage of them. A passenger can go to the hair salon, thermal spa, acupuncture, or have a massage. These amenities are available by choice, and of course you will pay extra.

If a company, corporation Or cruise line is clever enough to find a way to make extra money by adding to our comfort and pleasure...geeze so what...it's no big deal... we have the choice to either buy/participate or not.

But if I chose not to take advantage of these extra options, it's certainly not going to have a negative impact on my cruise experience or cause me to feel resentful because the cruise line is offering them at an extra cost.

(It's like paying a premium price for a movie ticket to see the latest blockbuster, then feeling resentful and angry because the theatre a charging you extra for the popcorn and soda. What, it's not included????)
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Old June 8th, 2012, 12:07 PM
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Originally Posted by buttons16 View Post
Not sure what you mean by oh my oh my here we go again?
, Buttons, this topic has been hashed and rehashed on so many cruising boards so many times. Perhaps this is your first time through a thread like this. It is about my 20th! So here we go again ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by buttons 16
I stated why is the customer the one responsible for giving a server a fair wage, why isnt the restaurant responsible. Why is the restaurant putting the problem of giving a server a decent wage on the customer.
You see, that is the principal point, and the principal advantage, of the tipping system. A restaurant server, more than almost any other employee, is DIRECTLY responsible to the customer and has a MAJOR impact on the entire dining experience. Now the restaurant owner could simply increase server's wages across the board, and the good and bad servers would get the money, and the customers would likely get less service and pay a higher price. ECONOMICS 101 -- if the owner's cost goes up, the price he charges HAS to go up.

Instead, the long tradition in the restaurant business, which works very well, is that WE, the customers, get to "rate" our service by the tips we give. We know that the price shown on the menu is "PLUS TIP" and figure that into our thinking. Then we decide what the server should receive based on the actual service we receive.

Most of the time I will tip the server the standard 15-20% provided they get the order right, serve the right plates to the right person, keep my ice tea refilled, check back to make sure everything is right, and promptly clear the table and bring the check. That is minimum good service. They have earned their "salary" from me.

If the server goes beyond that, brings me extra dressing and lemon for my tea, brightens my meal with a friendly attitude, get stuff where it belongs when it belongs there every time, is efficient and accurate, then their tip goes up to 25% or more. That server should then feel rewarded, make a good income, and stay in the business to serve me again.

If the server can't come up to the minimum, forgets who gets which plate, doesn't fill my beverage, wanders around and can't be found, is surly, or otherwise does not enhance my dining experience, their tip goes down. When it has fallen to 5% or so, I also write a note on the tab detailing why they are not getting a good tip.

On occasion I have been known to pointedly leave a quarter next to my plate to be sure the server gets the message. Hopefully they will complain about lousy tippers and get a job at Home Depot or something where they won't bother my enjoyment of the meal.

I love this system. It puts ME in control and demands that servers work hard to earn their tips.

The worst service I have ever had on a cruise ship was on the Matson Monterrey, years ago, where the servers were union members. They positively did not care.

With this "automatic" tipping now on so many cruise ships, it has been my observation that service is slipping. The ships where I have continued to get outstanding service have been those where I noticed that the headwaiters were doing their job and training and supervising constantly. Those where the headwaiters just stood around, or schmoozed the customers, were the ones with the worst service. Remove the incentive of tipping, and you have to replace it with supervision. I prefer the tipping, myself.

PS -- sometimes Capital Letters are for EMPHASIS and not for YELLING!
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