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Old July 6th, 2009, 11:08 AM
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Default Art Work on Cruise

Is the art work sold at auction really a bargain? Or is it just a way to keep us entertained?
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Old July 6th, 2009, 12:48 PM
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Many people feel that it is not a bargain. Enjoy your cruise and buy your art on land.
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Old July 6th, 2009, 01:09 PM
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A good auctioneer can make the art auctions very entertaining.

Like anything you buy, anywhere you buy it - know what things should cost or what you are willing to pay for it to determine whether an item is a bargain. There will be some pieces that are a real steal, others not so much. They will also try to upsell you on framing. We did buy some art through Carnival/Princess and were happy with it and the cost of framing.

Also, I'm not sure if Park West runs the auctions on Celebrity check out some of the postings here on CruiseMates as well as other places to decide whether you wish to do business with them.
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Old July 6th, 2009, 01:47 PM
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Default HOOKED ON CRUISE SHIP ART

On our recent Princess cruise Park West was not the art dealer and we did not find their items affordable at all, not to mention their way of auctioning off the art. Many years ago before PARK WEST we bought a large piece by Matrio (sp) and it is now worth more than 5 times what we paid for it. But, we do not buy pieces for appreciation.. we buy them because they appeal to us.. We have found there are "take offs"..pieces sold inexpensively as is that you have to physically take off the ship..giveaways.. and those $$$ Peter Maxx...not to mention artists that I just drool over.. My hallway at home, bedroom, bathrooms are filled with pieces that we have bought on ships..There are still pieces rolled up we haven't gotten to..whether it's a Tarkey,Steinmovitz, LeKniff or whoever.. On our last cruise there was nothing of interest.. EXCEPT PARROT POP fell in love with a Marilyn Monroe piece which he had to have.. One cruise there was a woman who wanted to buy expensive copies of The Masters.. at one sitting she spent over $25,000.00 Another time I was bidding against the wife of a famous basketball player who resells the work..another time a decorator who buys to resell.. People collect for different reasons.. one woman collected up and coming Russian artists and had a stapled list of pieces she had and was changing the appreciation. As for the framing.. we have had our framed locally..unless it was a "take off"
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Old July 6th, 2009, 08:08 PM
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Princess is the only line with their own in house artwork. We have purchased many pieces over the years, at $$'s we feel comfortable with.Take off, and shipped pieces....Only time we ever had issues was with Princess...we bought some collages, and Princess should be ashamed at what we received! 2nd shipment, same quality....we took it locally to get "fixed" Long story short, we ended up with it for free, plus a Tarkay, for our troubles..

If you like it, and the price is in your comfort zone, enjoy it...memories, when you look at them, they remind you of your cruise...
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Old July 8th, 2009, 11:58 AM
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Thank you for the information regarding the art auctions. I have almost purchased three pictures on my last cruise, but walked away. Not sure if I could kick myself yet.

But, since I have posted the original post, I found out that a friend living in San Francisco knew a lot about art and was able to get a steal on a numbered copy. But like several of you have said before, you really need to know what you are getting ... and frankly I am a novice. Guess.. I'll buy if it's in my price range and most importantly love it in my home.

thanks for sharing.
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Old July 8th, 2009, 12:08 PM
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If you pass it by at an early auction ask the dealer to bring it back.. OR ask what price they would take for it..if it hasn't sold.. Also, ask about getting A PARK WEST credit card where you can pay it out over one year
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Old July 8th, 2009, 06:51 PM
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Good tip about the Card Mom...I didn't know this. Now if I can convince my DP.
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Old July 8th, 2009, 10:05 PM
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We were on the NCL Majesty one year and met two elderly (I wasn't that old then..lol) ladies.. who looked like..heaven help me.. cleaning ladies.. Well, one of them had a thing for Erte..and Betty Boop, but it was only certain type of Erte (there is a big story behind him overproducing his work before his death) and she had spent $$ on her regular credit card.. and when I told her about the Park West...she went on a spending spree with one huge piece going for almost $7,000.lol It seems she was a single woman who never married, had a decent job, inheirited alot of property from her father..here, in Canada and Ireland..
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Old July 26th, 2009, 11:56 AM
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Default Art Work

Google Park West Galleries and you will see they are being sued for selling overpriced and sometime fraudulent works
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Old July 26th, 2009, 05:26 PM
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You're correct Circleboy...actually I read two interesting articles. I really hope these were isolated incidents...but not being an avid or even knowledgable art critic, how would I know before-hand? I live in San Francisco and there are many art galleries here too...If I walked into one, while I may appreciate it, wouldn't have a clue if it was legit or not.

I know other cruiselines have the same art vendor...I wonder if in the case I read, if Celebrity made a statment regarding it?

Then again, isn't art somewhat subjective? What is "priceless" to me may be a flea-market item to another.
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Old July 26th, 2009, 09:04 PM
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I live in West Bloomfield, Michigan...home to Park WestGalleries...take what I say and investigate..I agree art is subjective....but who in their right mind would spend 1,000 of dollars on something offered at an auction from a company they know nothing about. Don't you think the cruise lines get a spiff from the sales?
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Old July 26th, 2009, 10:36 PM
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OF COURSE THEY DO!!! Add that income to the sale of t-shirts, faux and real jewely (and what do suppose $10.00 watches really cost), makeup, perfume, liquor and of course the spas and the kick backs from the overpriced tours. DID I MISS ANYTHING But we figure we don't really drink, don't smoke, don't gamble (that too), so if we spend a few $$ on "art" what can I tell you, but there is a limit.
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Old July 26th, 2009, 11:36 PM
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The article I read...the Cardiologist purchased one piece of art on Celebrity for $30,000! The dealer told him the piece was worth $50,000. Hell, I couldn't imagine spending $1,000...not on a cruise ship. I would want to research / investigate.

Now Parrot Mom, Liquor IS cheaper on cruise ships than on land. I guess like any place, sometimes cruiselines may offer a good deal, othertimes not so.
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Old July 26th, 2009, 11:43 PM
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Default $30,000

Having worked with M.D.s for 20 years... I can't believe the M.D. would (1) go for the spiel, (2) spent that much $$ on a ship... but then again..he might have a very successful practice.. Oh, yes, the auctioneers make $$ too. Yes, he could have gone to the internet cafe and checked the artist and his work out.and with pieces in that price category... auctioneers are willing to wheel and deal privately.. unless of course he was bidding against somebody and his ego got in the way
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Old July 27th, 2009, 12:19 AM
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Wow, I never realized anyone actually even attended those auctions much less actually spent that kind of money! If I had that kind of money I would be cruising on Crystal and cruising more often!
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Old July 27th, 2009, 10:50 AM
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I certainly didn't realize they had pieces that costly! We attended one auction and it was kind of fun. They served champagne and we received two free 8x10 prints, which was cool. The paintings were numbered by by an artist I had never heard of, from Louisianna. Not bad, but again I'm not an art critic, lol. My DP and I enjoy walking through the lobby and looking at the pieces, and we do it a couple of times on a cruise...but have never purchased.

Parrot Mom, you have a great point. Why didn't the Cardiologist go to the Internet Cafe and do some research, or at least call his lawyer buddy (who he claims told him he was a fool after he came home and showed him the $30k invoice)?

I too would rather invest that money in future cruises!
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Old July 27th, 2009, 04:56 PM
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One of the issues about knowing whether something is a good deal or not is that there are limited resources available, especially at sea, to check the latest prices of an artists work. As well, you are typically not in a position to do so in the miiddle of an auction. The auctioneer will tell you anything.

As far as I know, the sites that do provide this information do it for a fee. One could check EBay, but that is not really a reliable guage of price.

We have also purchased at sea, and on land as well. Did we get a good deal? Not really sure, but what we have we like, and it goes well in our home. I will say that about 2 years ago we were in Puerto Vallarta and purchased an oil by a Cuban artist that we absolutely loved. It was less than what we had paid for some of the prints we had previuosly purchased.

Will we buy more? Don't know, but we do have our eye on a bigger piece by that same artist that would be perfect for our dining area....and we have a call in PV on our October trans canal....hmmmmmm.....

As far as shipboard art purchases, we have bought our last. But like Triton said, it is nice to walk through the displays and admire the pictures.
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Old July 27th, 2009, 05:46 PM
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At this point I look at it as a souvenier of our cruise...I am a compulsive shopper, yes I am..and putting me in a room with people bidding is dangerous to my credit card/Park West Card..lol One cruise as Parrot Pop turned his back i bid and won a lovely painting..hadn't realized what I paid for it until we got home, but it's beautiful.. and yes there are some real bargains.."take offs" pictures all framed you have to carry off. and yes we did it several times..lol, free prints.. and there is one artist now I'd give my eye teeth for one of his pieces.. he has since died and the work obviously is gone.. Parrot Pop is right now figuring out our one way trip from NYC...to
Boston..lol.. and if we don't fly back.. I can buy more and more and I don't mean jewelry..
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Old July 27th, 2009, 06:24 PM
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Quoting Parrot Mom: "Parrot Pop turned his back, I bid and won a lovely painting." ! Are you serious? That is funny, having cruised with both of you, I am

Now I know why Parrot Pop purchased the "Fish Paddle" to hang on the wall when we were on the Amazon cruise...
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Old July 27th, 2009, 06:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Triton
Quoting Parrot Mom: "Parrot Pop turned his back, I bid and won a lovely painting." ! Are you serious? That is funny, having cruised with both of you, I am

Now I know why Parrot Pop purchased the "Fish Paddle" to hang on the wall when we were on the Amazon cruise...
Will never forgive you for letting him do that..actually I should use it on you for letting him do it..
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Old July 27th, 2009, 09:58 PM
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palmilla,

Quote:
Originally Posted by You
Is the art work sold at auction really a bargain? Or is it just a way to keep us entertained?
First, it's not really an auction. It's a sale made to look like an auction. You can buy any of the pieces offered for sale in the gallery for the amount of the "minimum bid" at auction. And if you ask for a different frame for a piece that comes framed, Park West's representatives will manipulate the pricing so you won't pay any more than the asked price.

That said, the prices are comparable to what you would pay in a Park West gallery or a Southeby's gallery ashore. They obviously carry artists who have a reputation within the art world, and thus whose artwork is likely to appreciate in value in the future. Unfortunately, most artwork does not appreciate significantly until the artist dies -- which means that you probably will have to hold onto a piece for a couple decades or more before your can realize a significant return on your investment, so don't buy anything that you don't want to display in your home!

Now, realistically, you can go to art stores in many shopping malls and buy original paintings by unknown artists for a tenth of the price that you would pay to Southeby's or ParkWest for a work by a well-known artist, and such pieces may have just as much artistic merit as the pieces sold by Southeby's or ParkWest. Of course, such works are not likely to pay off as investments because the work of an unknown artist won't appreciate in value.

That said, it is also absolutely imperative to understand what you are buying when you are buying artwork.

>> A "painting" is just that. The artist takes brush in hand and fills the canvas with oil, acryllic, or water color paints, and you buy the original work. Paintings are usually signed in paint somewhere on the canvas.

>> A "print" is also just that. The artist reproduces a painting or some other picture through some sort of printing process. Prints are generally more valuable if they are (1) numbered and (2) signed by the artist, usually in pen or pencil right below the picture. Additionally, prints from a smaller edition are generally more valuable than prints from a larger edition.

>> A "gyclee" (pronounced "gi-clay" where "gi" pronouned as in the French name "Gigi") is the result of a hybrid process. The artist first paints a painting, then (1) takes a digital photograph of the painting and (2) uses a rubber-like compound to make a mold of the painted surface. Next, the artist spreads a special material onto a canvas, presses the mold onto it, and cures it, giving the surface the texture of the brush strokes in the painting. Next, the cured material goes through a large printer that sprays it with the colors of the original painting, as captured in the digital photograph, aligned with the texture of the brush strokes. Finally, most artists will take a paint brush in hand to highlight the printed work, causing each piece to be unique, then sign and number the work -- but the number is usually placed in the upper left corner of the back of the work. The result is a piece that looks like an original painting, but that sells for a lot less. The majority of works sold in the "Thomas Kinkaid Gallery" in your local shopping mall in years past were in fact gyclees, and some shops at art museums now sell giclees of famous pieces displayed therein. And like a print, the value of a giclee becomes more valuable if it is (1) highlighted, (2) numbered, and (3) signed by the artist who did the original painting. Also, again, pieces from smaller editions are worth more than pieces from larger editions.

>> Finally, ParkWest galleries also sell various memorabilia from famous atheletes, etc. I don't know the memorabilia market at all, so the only advice I can give is to ensure that you understand what you are buying before you make the purchase.

That said, finding artwork of value that you like, and that will fit into your decor, is always a challenge. I don't recommend buying anything that you don't want to hang on your walls for twenty or thirty years just because you think that it might have value as an investment. OTOH, a nice painting can increase a couple orders of magnitude or more in value if the artist dies while it's hanging on your wall, providing a nice payday for buying quality works by reasonably well-known artists, if you really do like them!

Norm.
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Old July 27th, 2009, 10:05 PM
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palmilla,

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Originally Posted by You
But like several of you have said before, you really need to know what you are getting ... and frankly I am a novice.
Yes, that is the point exactly. But to their credit, ParkWest's staff seem to be quite willing to answer questions honestly. On my last cruise, wanting to know whether a piece was an original painting or a giclee, I asked one of the reps if it was an original oil. He was very quick to make sure that I understood that it was not an oil, but an acryllic, in his effort to make sure that he did not misrepresent the piece.

Quote:
Originally Posted by You
Guess.. I'll buy if it's in my price range and most importantly love it in my home.
That's a sound strategy. You'll recover your investment in your enjoyment of the piece, and whatever you get when you decide to sell it will be gravy.

Norm.
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Old July 27th, 2009, 10:16 PM
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circleboy,

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Google Park West Galleries and you will see they are being sued for selling overpriced and sometime fraudulent works
Just remember that anybody can file a lawsuit in court. In a case like this, the press often will report the allegations in the lawsuit when the case gets filed, often with interviews of the plaintiff and the plaintiff's lawyer presenting some sob story about how dishonest they allege that the business was, and then not say a word when the court determines that the claims have no merit and dismisses the case in a summary judgement. And the real fraud in the case was the plaintiff's lawyer.

The burden of proof in a civil case is quite low. One need only convince a jury that it is "more probable than not" that one's claim is valid to prevail. We ought not toot these stories as evidence of improper conduct unless and until there's an actual verdict that withstands appeal.

Norm.
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Old July 28th, 2009, 08:04 PM
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Zamy Steynovitz is an artist who has passed away since I purchased a piece by him, similar to this one. Since it had a cruise ship in it, of course I loved it...every time I look at it, it reminds me of our great time onboard our own cruise

http://www.artbrokerage.com/art/zamy...Holiday_Dreams
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Old July 28th, 2009, 08:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trip
Zamy Steynovitz is an artist who has passed away since I purchased a piece by him, similar to this one. Since it had a cruise ship in it, of course I loved it...every time I look at it, it reminds me of our great time onboard our own cruise

http://www.artbrokerage.com/art/zamy...Holiday_Dreams
We must have similar taste..I have one of his with a cruise ship that commemerates an anniversary.. What "frosted" me is some idiot who kept outbidding me because Zamy had just died and he figured he had better outbid me..
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Old July 28th, 2009, 08:20 PM
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I remember when I found out he passed away, we were in San Juan, at an art gallery yet! I was surprised as he was so young...I have no idea how his work has increased, or, if it has at all, since his passing...
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Old July 29th, 2009, 05:31 PM
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That really is a beautiful piece, Trip. How fortunate you are to have that, and the memories to go with.
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