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  #91 (permalink)  
Old July 15th, 2010, 07:33 PM
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Paul,

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I believe everyone has a right to privacy and freedom from gov't. interference in their personal lives - including gays and "choice." Just because a conservative wouldn't choose to have an abortion personally it doesn't mean they want to overturn Roe V Wade.
At the risk of taking this thread further down a tangent, I basically agree with you regarding the government not involving itself in what consenting adults do behind closed doors.

But do you think that the government should protect the life of each person by proscribing murder?

If so, why don't you extend that protection to the child in the womb?

FBOW, the reality is that every elective abortion stops the beat of a human heart.

Should a woman be forced to bear her child against her wishes?

No, absolutely not -- but there's a right way and a wrong way to exercise that choice. The right way is to refrain from conceiving a child that one does not wish to bear. The wrong way is to hire a physician to murder that child after conception.

And here, I'll add that any civilized society should deal very severely with those convicted of violating a woman's choice not to conceive a child (that is, the crime of rape), even if conception does not occur.

Norm.
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Old July 15th, 2010, 09:00 PM
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Seems like Nurse D misses the Bush adminestration.

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  #93 (permalink)  
Old July 16th, 2010, 12:08 PM
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How this discussion of Obama and the Jones Act turned into a discussion on women's rights is beyond me....Folks..all of you and that includes our government...STAY OUT OF MY BEDROOM AND MY RIGHTS AS A WOMAN AND MY BODY!!!! Why aren't there consequences for men!!!!
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  #94 (permalink)  
Old July 16th, 2010, 12:39 PM
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I do understand the "choice" issue, but I still believe it is not right force a woman to give birth to a child she cannot take care of, or in the case of rape. I think it is a stretch by the some to assume that every unwanted baby will be adoptable. I just don't think that is true.

The test would be this - if a person is absolutely opposed to all abortion, would they be willing to adopt a minority, down's syndrome baby - or several of them?

I will say I absolutely admire the choice Sarah Palin made to have her baby even though she knew well in advance it had a genetic defect. And it really irks me that her personal views on "choice" is probably the number one reason so many women hate her. How can you hate a person who would make a sacrifice for a child like that? It doesn't mean she is qualified to be President, but at least give the her the credit of having the courage of her own convictions.

I am also markedly opposed to "partial birth" and other late term abortions. But I personally think the viability point of the baby should be the determination line because while it is a fetus it is still the mother's body.

But these are MY opinions, and mostly I respect the current law more than I would ever impose my values on another person. To me this question reeks of trying to establish a state religion - no one should be told how to think. I agree with the current law because it allows people like Palin to do what their conscience tells them, and that applies equally to other thoughts. I see that as the American way.

What I would disagree with is a law that says all genetically deficient babies must be terminated. If it ever comes to that we are coming very close to Eugenics. I never worried about that before - but with the progressive left currently in charge of designing our new health care system at this point nothing would surprise me. Stupak was promised there would never be a government funded abortion, and we just found out yesterday that two states are already creating special insurance pools that will cover abortions. So basically, someone lied to Stupak just to get his vote on the health care bill.
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  #95 (permalink)  
Old July 16th, 2010, 12:42 PM
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By the way - there is now a "next day pill" for men...

It changes your DNA.

(that's an old joke - it used to be "it changes your blood type").
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  #96 (permalink)  
Old July 16th, 2010, 12:59 PM
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This is one subject where I am pretty well informed.. White healthy babies are highly wanted on the grey and black market.. and don't kid yourself.. it's out there.. Most couples want children "who look like them".. and hence the high rate of adoptions from Russia.. Minority children in this country languish in foster homes and few are adopted.. As for handicapped or special needs children few are lucky enough to have an angel look for them.. Florida in all their wisdom has and I believe still not allowed gay couples to adopt older children.. they would rather have them stay until they reach the age of majority when they are turned out.. If you are so lucky to be carrying a genetic gene like "Tay Sacks sp) would you be willing to have a second, third and fourth child with that disease... Genetic screening has come a long way and see your child/children die before your eyes...I couldn't. Am I a monster...no...I don't think so.. Check it out.. there is really no such thing as a partial abortion... I dislike Sara Palin because I feel she parades her son around as a "badge" to her motherhood...One of the answers should be... birth control education ... and it's opposed by many... My children are beyond that stage.. and btw one of my sons is adopted..I've forgotten which one...
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Old July 17th, 2010, 11:15 PM
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Quote:
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Sorry, but the part of the postI quoted above shows how distorted political arguements can get when politics are turned on and minds are turned off.

Read it again.. 70% of people support the new law... Obama wants to score political points?
Aren't those two at odds??? How does one score political points if 70% of people are against what you are doing?? Any logic there????????
Kuki,

Actually YES, there is a lot of logic in what I said!!!

Maybe I was not quite clear when I said "Obama was trying to score political points"; what I meant was that Obama was trying to score political points with his Liberal base, because if he looses them he has lost just about everyone. Clearly he is not scoring any political points with the vast majority of Americans.

The actions or inactions of Obama has already lost most of the independent voters with his radical plans for the United States and now he must try to shore up his dwindling support from the base, by again playing the race card, this time over the illegal alien situation. I do agree totally that there is not much logic in anything Obama does, as everything is driven by political goals. Some cases in point trying to try the one of the 911 leaders in NYC instead of by a military tribunal, not prosecuting the voter intimidation case in Baltimore, refusing aid in the oil spill, closed Liberal meetings to draft the government takeover of our health care system, protecting trial lawyers by leaving out the TORT reform in the Obama care bill, bribes for votes, etc.

Obama and Pelosi even tried to pass off the enforcement of the border, by the people of Arizona, as a racial issue. Pelosi and Holder parroted the same thing, even though they admitted that they had not "taken the time" to read the 16 page bill. I know it is hard for people on the left to understand, but the law states that citizenship can only be questioned by authorities after you have committed a crime or are suspected of committing a crime. I expect the distortions from the leaders from the left, but it saddens me to see even Obama lie about what the law actually says by saying that a family could be stopped at the ice cream parlor and asked for their papers. Just a sad commentary about the leadership in this country. I noticed that in the actual suit by the government against Arizona, did not include any discrimination charges, which just goes to show the pandering of the current powers that be.

Ignoring the rulings of both the local Court and the Supreme Court over Obama's suspending all offshore drilling is just one more example a what I would call a regime that is out of touch with the vast majority of Americans.

Obama has however, done a decent job in pursuing the two wars to slow down the terrorist. Obama also said he wants a pay for performance for teachers. Now, if this just wasn’t another speech and he really means it, it would be a great step forward to improve the lagging education system in the US.

The realy good news is that it does sound like BP has finally capped the oil spill and I pray that it does hold.

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  #98 (permalink)  
Old July 18th, 2010, 11:36 AM
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Next thing the right wing will want is to deport all the LIberals.
Then the Republicans can start a few more wars.

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  #99 (permalink)  
Old July 18th, 2010, 11:42 AM
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Quote:
Pelosi and Holder parroted the same thing, even though they admitted that they had not "taken the time" to read the 16 page bill.
Did YOU read the bill to state what it does or does not say? Are you ready to believe that the Attorney General of the US, who filed the suit, didn't read it??

I have a winter home in Az. I've watched the very popular Sheriff Arrpiao there with his "be tough" stance on law breakers for years, with tough tough confinement for prisoners. Yet, crime in the state has risen not gone down.

Quote:
I expect the distortions from the leaders from the left,
We'll agree, when you admit the same distortions from leaders from the right!

Unfortunately most of your post sounds like regurgitated Fox News "talking points" rather than individual thought. You seem to call it fact because it came from the right's "holy grail".

Things are a mess because the American people have been lied to for decades by their "leaders". Profits began to dictate the society, LONG ago, when companies were actually rewarded for taking their production overseas, to save money. It go to the point one of the only things America was making any more was money. And without having a manufacturing center, money alone can't sustain a society, it can only make a few people more money.

You're a nation in desparate need of a visionary leader, who's interests are the good of the American people. The nation knew that, and elected Obama because they thought he was that man... who would quit deceiving the people, and actually lead.

At this point it appears he isn't that "messiah" (though it's very early to judge). But at this point the US nation is so polarized, they'd be very likely to toss that "messiah" to the side of the road, if he chew gum and they didn't. There'd be no recognition of what he is....and you're left with folks like Pelosi, Ried, Cheney, Roves, Limbaugh, Hannity, Olberman, Beck, Ron Paul, Sarah Palin, Michelle Backman, etc. ad nauseum, fighting to keep the same scenario repeating over and over and over again.

And that is truly why political discussions (particularly on cruise message boards) are about as useful as giving beavers toothbrushes.

When you finally get to the position where your governments are given more than two to four VERY SHORT years to remedy all the problems of your past liars (errr leaders), there may be a shot for a real leader to emerge.
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  #100 (permalink)  
Old July 18th, 2010, 02:11 PM
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"At this point it appears he isn't that "messiah" (though it's very early to judge). But at this point the US nation is so polarized, they'd be very likely to toss that "messiah" to the side of the road, if he chew gum and they didn't. There'd be no recognition of what he is....and you're left with folks like Pelosi, Ried, Cheney, Roves, Limbaugh, Hannity, Olberman, Beck, Ron Paul, Sarah Palin, Michelle Backman, etc. ad nauseum, fighting to keep the same scenario repeating over and over and over again."

You are so right Kuki... Even his taking his family on a short vacation has caused an uproar...because it wasn't down South..Gosh.. he's going to liberal territory in August in Martha's Vineyard in MA.. wonder what that means...Does it matter that one Bush went to Kennebunk,Maine, another to his ranch in Texas, one President to Hot Springs, Georgia (died there with a mistress)...

I predict that the Tea Party Group will split the Republican Party and the Democrats will win again..
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  #101 (permalink)  
Old July 18th, 2010, 04:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manuel View Post
Next thing the right wing will want is to deport all the LIberals.
Then the Republicans can start a few more wars.

TM

I better not let it be known that I knew Barbara Boxer in HS
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  #102 (permalink)  
Old July 18th, 2010, 04:17 PM
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People have very short memories.

We are doing in the Middle East the same thing we did in Vietnam. We expect to local people to kill one another to save their country.

I say bring home the troops and save the USA.

TM

PS I thought that big-mouth drug addict Limbaugh was going to leave the US if Obama got elected.
I guess no other country would let him in.
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  #103 (permalink)  
Old July 18th, 2010, 04:24 PM
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I've been saying that since 2003 . The Vietnam Veterans Against The War say it best ,in my opinion "How many americans have to die for oil ."These people know because they lived through a horrific war that made absolutely no sense . The trillions of dollars being spent on war could be used to feed the homeless and starving americans ,many of whom are vietnam veterans .
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  #104 (permalink)  
Old July 18th, 2010, 05:56 PM
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Actually Kuki, I have read the bill (I live in AZ and it is only 16 pages) and indeed Eric Holder admitted he had not read it before he openly criticized it. Even Obama and Napolitano admitted they had not read it.

I believe they do not want to read it, because if they did they would have to admit they are misinformed about it.

No one can be held as aliens unless they were already stopped for another legal reason. What is reasonable suspicion? Being within 20 miles of the border with an AK47, a bottle of water and a package of heroin on your back is a pretty good (and common) one.

I have said it a million times - we are living in the Great Age of Disingenuousness. Kuki - have you read it? You criticized it.

-------------------------------------------------

As for Fox News talking points, I make it a practice to watch all channels, but I admit I go back to Fox the most because I find them the least spin-driven. What we have in this country right now is a political system backed up by a mainstream media that does not want to look at real issues - they want to promote a European style Utopia of monolithic deficit spending and debt.

The mainstream media's problem is not what they are reporting, it is what they are NOT reporting. When the vast majority of Anericans disapprove of Obama's policy don't you think the media should be reporting on what the majority of Americans are thinking? But they don't - they are still promoting the left's agenda as if they haven't even sensed the tide turning.

I saw Axelrod on the Daily Show last week and the only "success" he could brag about was the administrations handling of H1N1. In every other nation in the world, they did exactly as we did (ordered about 20 times as many doses as we needed) they are up in arms about wasting $billions on vaccine. But that story never hit our shores so Axelrod can brag about it.

Google "Europe WHO H1N1 critics"



Also, I love this:

Quote:
I dislike Sara Palin because I feel she parades her son around as a "badge" to her motherhood..
I feel that statement is fear-based. I have never seen her "parade" her child around. He is a special needs toddler. Sometimes she picks him up after a speech, but I have never seen her "parade" him at all.

So, the sad thing is that you see this child as a threat to you - this innocent, mentally disabled child. If ever there was an argument AGAINST abortion it would be people would want to abort OTHER PEOPLE'S CHILDREN. I thought the pro-abortion movement was about "choice." That reeks of eugenics.

And that is what kills me - it is never said out loud, but it is the one of the main reasons why the left hates Sarah Palin - her view on "choice."

Personally, I dislike her because I think she is unqualified and an embarassment to the party, but I admire her conviction to live up to what she personally believes. I thought that was one of the main things we were supposed to admire most about this country - the right of people to choose how to live their own lives.

---------------------------------------------------------------------

I do think this has been a surprisingly civil discussion of politics. Except for a few people resorting to name calling, that is.

By the way - I believe the left resorts to name calling far more than the right.

If you watch MSNBC you hear them refer to people on the right as "stupid" and "racist" all the time. To me this is as unamerican as one can get. And they frequently do it to Fox reporters specifically - this is so "playground" childish to me - unbelievable. Fox reporters almost NEVER refer to MSNBC reporters at all, and that should tell you a lot.

But it is what liberals are commmonly taught.

Saul Alinsky's Rules for Radicals rule #5:

5. "Ridicule is man's most potent weapon. It is almost impossible to counteract ridicule. Also it infuriates the opposition, which then reacts to your advantage."

This is the progressive bible, Hillary Clinton did her master's thesis on this book. Reporters on MSNBC regularly quote it from memory. This is what academia is teaching our kids today.

Here are some mor gems from Hillary's (and Obama's) hero. By the way, Saul Alinksy was a "community organizer" by profession and he wrote this book as their handbook back in 1972, just before he died:


3. "Whenever possible, go outside the expertise of the enemy. Look for ways to increase insecurity, anxiety and uncertainty. (This happens all the time. Watch how many organizations under attack are blind-sided by seemingly irrelevant arguments that they are then forced to address.)

4. "Make the enemy live up to its own book of rules. You can kill them with this, for they can no more obey their own rules than the Christian church can live up to Christianity."

5. "Ridicule is man's most potent weapon. It is almost impossible to counteract ridicule. Also it infuriates the opposition, which then reacts to your advantage."


13. Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it. In conflict tactics there are certain rules that [should be regarded] as universalities. One is that the opposition must be singled out as the target and 'frozen.'...
"...any target can always say, 'Why do you center on me when there are others to blame as well?' When your 'freeze the target,' you disregard these [rational but distracting] arguments.... Then, as you zero in and freeze your target and carry out your attack, all the 'others' come out of the woodwork very soon. They become visible by their support of the target...'
"One acts decisively only in the conviction that all the angels are on one side and all the devils on the other." (pps.127-134)

And by the way - here is the book's dedication = to Lucifer:

“Lest we forget at least an over-the-shoulder acknowledgment to the very first radical: from all our legends, mythology, and history (and who is to know where mythology leaves off and history begins — or which is which), the first radical known to man who rebelled against the establishment and did it so effectively that he at least won his own kingdom — Lucifer.”

Now - I actually like Hillary. I am just pointing out how much farther to the left the progressive are than most independents ever even suspected.
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  #105 (permalink)  
Old July 18th, 2010, 06:28 PM
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Quote:
One of the answers should be... birth control education ... and it's opposed by many... My children are beyond that stage.. and btw one of my sons is adopted..I've forgotten which one...
Good for you for adopting a son, I really admire that.

As far as birth control education, I am not opposed to it in high school, but I am opposed for grade five or younger and it depends on what kind.

I do think condoms should mentioned to adolescents, but at the same time I am pretty sure no high school kid needs education in this area. What they need is education on pregnancy and the tranference of blood-born diseases such as AIDS and HEP-C. That is critical.

But I also think it should be up to parents to teach their kids this stuff - not teachers. I just think teachers have enough to do.

I also worry that some "sex" education at young ages can become too suggestive and lend an air of permissiveness to the whole topic when it is coming from a trusted adult who is legally stifled from saying certain things. A parent can say things a teacher cannot say regarding religion and morality, whereas a teacher is not allowed to say things that may be regarded as "politically incorrect."
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  #106 (permalink)  
Old July 18th, 2010, 06:53 PM
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BY the way - this is interesting. I was always a radical in school, never afraid to speak my own mind, and I have to say I was often astounded at how unique I was (in the sense that no one else had the same courage I had to speak up).

In high school I recall a disucssion about "Jesus Christ Superstar" and how it was controversial because it had lyrics for Jesus that said "I'm just a man" - I was the only one who was NOT afraid to say that Jesus was arguably just a man. He died from crucifixion.

Today I realize it is far more complicated than that, but my point is that back then (1970) no one in my class was prepared to raise their hand and say Jesus was arguably not just a man. They were afraid to speak up.

I also recall much younger the question of prejudice came up, and first the teacher asked, "can anybody here say they are truly not prejudiced" and I was the only one to raise my hand. I said "prejudce is based on the root "pre-judge" and I do not pre-judge anyone's intelligence, beliefs or abilities based on skin color."

Then the teacher asked "who would be upset if their sister married a black man" - again, no one was brave enough to raise their hand, except for me. Of course that sent shock waves, "I thought you weren't prejudiced...."

So I said, "I'm not, but all of you are, and I wouldn't want to put my sister through that societal stigma."

To be clear - that was 1970 and we were not as advanced as a society. I also grew up in a SO-white neighborhood.

Today I would welcome my sister marrying a black man very much, or any decent man of any color. Things have changed and I do believe we are mostly beyond race now in this country, except for a few crazies still out there (a very small minority). I certainly do not think Arizonans or the "Teabag party" are racist just because they want to control our borders.

The people calling other people racists are the racists, and I really don't see how they don't get that. If you call another person a racist you are pointing out THEIR skin color and saying bad things about them based on it. That is a racist act.

When it comes to racism, its like passing wind - he who speaks first is usually responsible (that's just a joke, with a grain of truth).

But here is a better example - don't think of an elephant. Oh, you thought of an elephant.

Here is another example - don't think a racist thought. Oh, you thought a racist thought. If you call another person a racist because YOU think they are racist, then you were the one who just had a racist thought, not the person you are accusing. No one can read minds - except your own.

If you even see race as a factor in judging individual people you are a racist. But even if another person is a racist you cannot truly know that for a fact because you cannot see into their minds.

In the end calling people racist just boils down to name calling and provoking people, as Saul Alinsky would do.
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Old July 18th, 2010, 09:18 PM
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When I was 12 years old my best friend was murdered by 3 teenagers .One hundred percent of the people I have related this to over the past 50+ years have assumed that my friend was white and the 3 teens were black but in reality it was the reverse .
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  #108 (permalink)  
Old July 19th, 2010, 12:51 AM
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Quote:
I have said it a million times - we are living in the Great Age of Disingenuousness. Kuki - have you read it? You criticized it.
Nope, I haven't read it, BUT neither did I criticize it.

I've been watching Arizona for several years, until I bought my winter home there last year, and I actually liked Sherrif Joe's approach. My point was that as much of a "law & order" guy as he was, it didn't slow down the crime rate.

What I criticized is people regurgitating "talking points" - from either the left or the right. Just taking everything they see from the media on "their side" as fact, and the other side as lies. And I criticized the "leaders" from both the left and right, for their lack of leadership.

I'm not American. I'm Canadian, so I also don't have any emotional investment in U.S. politics. As your outside neighbor looking in I actually hate to see the mess your political situation has become.

Paul.. I will disagree you with Fox being "less spin driven". I have no dog in the race; I watch it all for "entertainment" if you will, and I see it all as spin-driven, motivated to polarize.

The problems in the U.S. are immense, and the leadership on both sides of the isle is pitiful.

In so many ways the United States is a great country, that I have almost always admired, though not necessarily always agreed with. For example... after Colin Powell's presentation to the UN, I was supportive of the invasion of Iraq. Of course, it all turned out to be the leaders lying to the people, and that was sad (besides very costly in lives and dollars), and really pretty embarrassing to the American people.

And now, with more demonstration of lack of leadership and polarization it's sad again because much of the population seems much more interested in the politics of winning "power", than finding real solutions.

The people of the United States, and the world, need a strong United States, but the United part does seem to be slipping away.

You say racism has been greatly diminished, and that may be true (since I don't live there I can't say), but hate is certainly on the rise.
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  #109 (permalink)  
Old July 19th, 2010, 08:44 AM
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I nominate Paul Motter for President .A man for all people
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Old July 19th, 2010, 10:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Henry43 View Post
I nominate Paul Motter for President .A man for all people
And Sarah Palin for Vice President. After all she can see Russia from her house.

TM
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Old July 19th, 2010, 03:24 PM
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Yes ,that alone should give her the title of VP for life .
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Old July 19th, 2010, 03:29 PM
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Ummm... thanks for the nomination, I have actually had a lot of people say I should be in politics. But I would never survive the BG check!!!

Kuki - I totally agree with your assessment of the U.S.

But "let me be perfectly clear" - I said Fox is LESS spin-driven, I didnt say NOT spin-driven - big difference. I have criticized Fox for being biased many times here, but it also depends on who you watch on Fox. If you watch Hannity or Beck it is very much rightest propaganda, but if you watch O'Reilly, Greta or the news shows it is far more balanced than most of MSNBC.

Glenn Beck is the most radical right, but it is actually hard to dispute many of the facts he presents and he does not resort to name calling. Hannity is the least tolerable for me. He rants on and repeats himself all the time. I may agree with him philosophically on fiscal matters, but I think he gets far too caught up in picayune incidents and tries to make a mountain out of a molehill.

By the way, Kuki, your summary of the Bush approach to Iraq is exactly right. We all agreed when we believed the premise, but as soon as we knew there were no WMDs to be found and the world said "no, don't go" we should have backed off.

Bush was a very bad President, and I was just detached from politics then because I didnt care. Because I didnt agree with what he did I just stopped watching. I only got really interested again when our economy collapsed, because that is the main thing that politics should be about in my opinion.

On MSNBC the ED Show and Keith Olbermann are just outright rude people, fully subscribing to the "ridicule your opposition" theory of Saul Alinsky. I hear them calling people names all the times. You are racist if you criticize Obama or agree with AZ (as the majority of Americans do), and you are stupid if you ever quote the Bible, because religion is a farce to many of these people. I will watch Rachel Maddow with no problem. I find her fair and I learn things from her I don't hear on Fox.

But both networks commit libel by omission (which I really dislike). I mean they take statements out of context and don't present the whole story.

But MSNBC is CONSTANTLY referring to Fox, but Fox never even mentions MSNBC except once in a great while. I see that as a huge difference. The fact that our white house actually told other news outlets that FOX is not a news channel and that they should never cover any story that originates on Fox is a travesty, IMHO. It shows a great insecurity and arrogance by the white house that they cannot tolerate people who disagree with them. Did you the WH just formally criticized CNN for picking up the non-prosecuted Black Panther story that Fox has been reporting? Then the Washington Post did an editorial two days later apologizing for not covering the story sooner. How embarassing for the WH.

Glenn Beck did a good one on MSNBC a few days ago (actually, I never even watched GB until I started last week). He showed a clip from MSNBC coverage of a tea party showing a guy with a gun - asserting they are gun-toting racists and borderline terrorists. But he showed the same clip and took out the MSNBC edit, and it was a black "teabagger" carrying a gun legally. I knew the clip already because it was from AZ where you can carry a gun. The guy was just doing it to underscore the fact that we have constitutional rights.

Henry - when you told your story I instantly knew you were referring to white guys killing a black. I think people from the South probably have a lot more assumptions about race than out west here. The funny thing is that racism usually goes where you have significant numbers of different races. AZ has traditionally embraced its Mexican heritage and we very, very few black people, so AZ is far from being a racist state - never has been in my experience and I lived in TX so I know the difference. TX has racists, AZ doesn't.

And by the way - once again there is that ridicule. I hope the left never comes to realize how ridiculous they look to intelligent people when they resort to saying things like "Sarah Palin can see Russia from her house"

I mean do they realize she never said that? Tina Fey said it in her parody of Palin, but Palin never once said that. She said "there are parts of Alaska where you can see Russia" and that is a true statement.

So, the question is "are they intentionally trying to spread false information about Palin to make her look stupid, or are they really so uninformed that they really believe she said that?"

An finally in this rant - what happened to objective reporting? Bernie Goldberg (a well-known media watcher) summed it up. CNN is down in ratings because they are bland. People WANT to listen to their own side now, they don't want balance.

But CNN got caught in a spot where they tried to do both sides and it really hurt them. Notice how James Carville and Paul Begala have disappeared? Notice how Stuart Varney and Lou Dobbs (and John Stossel) moved to Fox? Christiane Amanpour just left for ABC (she is Iranian, by the way), and a lady anchor named Gerri Willis just went to Fox.

I think we are stuck with the media we have for a long time.
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Old July 19th, 2010, 08:35 PM
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[QUOTE=Paul Motter;1304291].

Henry - when you told your story I instantly knew you were referring to white guys killing a black. I think people from the South probably have a lot more assumptions about race than out west here. The funny thing is that racism usually goes where you have significant numbers of different races. AZ has traditionally embraced its Mexican heritage and we very, very few black people, so AZ is far from being a racist state - never has been in my experience and I lived in TX so I know the difference. TX has racists, AZ doesn't.


Interesting ,I thought that perhaps you may have read a now out of print book that chronicled the incident .
]
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  #114 (permalink)  
Old July 19th, 2010, 11:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Paul Motter View Post
And by the way - once again there is that ridicule. I hope the left never comes to realize how ridiculous they look to intelligent people when they resort to saying things like "Sarah Palin can see Russia from her house"

I mean do they realize she never said that? Tina Fey said it in her parody of Palin, but Palin never once said that. She said "there are parts of Alaska where you can see Russia" and that is a true statement.

So, the question is "are they intentionally trying to spread false information about Palin to make her look stupid, or are they really so uninformed that they really believe she said that?"


I think we are stuck with the media we have for a long time.
Paul,

Though I have never been impressed with Sarah Palin I have always been very irritated when the "I can see Alaska from my house." is used to portray her as naive, or even stupid. As you stated: She never said it. That quote was from a Saturday Night Live skit. What she said was the truth.

I have just become sick of the whole thing. I am now hearing the same rhetoric that the left used when Bush was in office but now the Right are using the same half truths and B.S. to try and discredit.

I would love to see good old, boring, non-revenue producing news come back.

BTW: Bill O'Reily is a spin doctor. I stopped watching him after the Norwegian Dawn, rogue wave, incident. He touted it as the "Tsunamis Cruise Ship Disaster." I got so irritated with that I stopped watching.

Take care,
Mike
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Old July 20th, 2010, 09:27 PM
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Actually Kuki, I have read the bill (I live in AZ and it is only 16 pages) and indeed Eric Holder admitted he had not read it before he openly criticized it. Even Obama and Napolitano admitted they had not read it.

I believe they do not want to read it, because if they did they would have to admit they are misinformed about it.

No one can be held as aliens unless they were already stopped for another legal reason. What is reasonable suspicion? Being within 20 miles of the border with an AK47, a bottle of water and a package of heroin on your back is a pretty good (and common) one.

I have said it a million times - we are living in the Great Age of Disingenuousness. Kuki - have you read it? You criticized it.

-------------------------------------------------

As for Fox News talking points, I make it a practice to watch all channels, but I admit I go back to Fox the most because I find them the least spin-driven. What we have in this country right now is a political system backed up by a mainstream media that does not want to look at real issues - they want to promote a European style Utopia of monolithic deficit spending and debt.

The mainstream media's problem is not what they are reporting, it is what they are NOT reporting. When the vast majority of Anericans disapprove of Obama's policy don't you think the media should be reporting on what the majority of Americans are thinking? But they don't - they are still promoting the left's agenda as if they haven't even sensed the tide turning.

I saw Axelrod on the Daily Show last week and the only "success" he could brag about was the administrations handling of H1N1. In every other nation in the world, they did exactly as we did (ordered about 20 times as many doses as we needed) they are up in arms about wasting $billions on vaccine. But that story never hit our shores so Axelrod can brag about it.

Google "Europe WHO H1N1 critics"



Also, I love this:



I feel that statement is fear-based. I have never seen her "parade" her child around. He is a special needs toddler. Sometimes she picks him up after a speech, but I have never seen her "parade" him at all.

So, the sad thing is that you see this child as a threat to you - this innocent, mentally disabled child. If ever there was an argument AGAINST abortion it would be people would want to abort OTHER PEOPLE'S CHILDREN. I thought the pro-abortion movement was about "choice." That reeks of eugenics.

And that is what kills me - it is never said out loud, but it is the one of the main reasons why the left hates Sarah Palin - her view on "choice."

Personally, I dislike her because I think she is unqualified and an embarassment to the party, but I admire her conviction to live up to what she personally believes. I thought that was one of the main things we were supposed to admire most about this country - the right of people to choose how to live their own lives.

---------------------------------------------------------------------

I do think this has been a surprisingly civil discussion of politics. Except for a few people resorting to name calling, that is.

By the way - I believe the left resorts to name calling far more than the right.

If you watch MSNBC you hear them refer to people on the right as "stupid" and "racist" all the time. To me this is as unamerican as one can get. And they frequently do it to Fox reporters specifically - this is so "playground" childish to me - unbelievable. Fox reporters almost NEVER refer to MSNBC reporters at all, and that should tell you a lot.

But it is what liberals are commmonly taught.

Saul Alinsky's Rules for Radicals rule #5:

5. "Ridicule is man's most potent weapon. It is almost impossible to counteract ridicule. Also it infuriates the opposition, which then reacts to your advantage."

This is the progressive bible, Hillary Clinton did her master's thesis on this book. Reporters on MSNBC regularly quote it from memory. This is what academia is teaching our kids today.

Here are some mor gems from Hillary's (and Obama's) hero. By the way, Saul Alinksy was a "community organizer" by profession and he wrote this book as their handbook back in 1972, just before he died:


3. "Whenever possible, go outside the expertise of the enemy. Look for ways to increase insecurity, anxiety and uncertainty. (This happens all the time. Watch how many organizations under attack are blind-sided by seemingly irrelevant arguments that they are then forced to address.)

4. "Make the enemy live up to its own book of rules. You can kill them with this, for they can no more obey their own rules than the Christian church can live up to Christianity."

5. "Ridicule is man's most potent weapon. It is almost impossible to counteract ridicule. Also it infuriates the opposition, which then reacts to your advantage."


13. Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it. In conflict tactics there are certain rules that [should be regarded] as universalities. One is that the opposition must be singled out as the target and 'frozen.'...
"...any target can always say, 'Why do you center on me when there are others to blame as well?' When your 'freeze the target,' you disregard these [rational but distracting] arguments.... Then, as you zero in and freeze your target and carry out your attack, all the 'others' come out of the woodwork very soon. They become visible by their support of the target...'
"One acts decisively only in the conviction that all the angels are on one side and all the devils on the other." (pps.127-134)

And by the way - here is the book's dedication = to Lucifer:

“Lest we forget at least an over-the-shoulder acknowledgment to the very first radical: from all our legends, mythology, and history (and who is to know where mythology leaves off and history begins — or which is which), the first radical known to man who rebelled against the establishment and did it so effectively that he at least won his own kingdom — Lucifer.”

Now - I actually like Hillary. I am just pointing out how much farther to the left the progressive are than most independents ever even suspected.
Paul,

Excellent post, you really should run for office. With the past records of some of the folks that now hold high office in the US, you should have no trouble passing a BG check!!! You would have my vote!!!!!

I have also read some of the writings of Saul Alinsky's writings. In Rules for Radicals, Alinsky wrote "From the moment an organization enters a community, he lives, dreams, eats, breathes, sleeps only one thing and that is to build the mass power base of what he calls the army". The issue is never the issue. The issue is always revolution. BTW, Alinsky was also a community organizer in Chicago.

With the takeovers, bailouts, backroom deals and bribes, AG Holder unwilling to prosecute a clear case of voter intimidation, embracing ACORN and ignoring the will of the vast majority of the citizens of the US, I can't help but think back on what Obama said a few days before the election in 2008. He said "We are five days away from fundamentally transforming the United States of America."

The underlying theme in all left wing thinking has always been to take from the haves and give to the have not’s. As one poster's signature, on this board, says Socialism is great until the other guy's buck is gone.

In the conclusion of her thesis about Alinsky's, Hillary did compare Alinsky to Eugene Debs, Walt Whitman and Martin Luther King.

What scares me is that Hillary is farther to the Right than Obama!!!!!

Debra
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  #116 (permalink)  
Old July 21st, 2010, 09:48 AM
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What I find "off-putting". is that if I had a mentally challenged child... I as a mother would be devoting myself to his/her care...not running for whatever and running around the country giving speeches.. If I had a "special needs" child, perhaps I'm not Ethel Kennedy (who started the Special Olympics) but education for my chlld, his future would be foremost on my mind whether it was schooling, i.e.mainstreaming... and helping that child reach his/her potential... and leaving it to siblings or babysitters is not my idea of raising a a child.. special needs or not.. We women can't have it all.. the new generation is experiencing.. Since you are "Nurse Debra" I too wonder if you are truly an R.N. that has been asked several times before. I absolutely believe in choice, my choice..and don't want conservatives in my bedroom or home telling me what is "legal" and what is not. when they want less government interference.. Neither one of us has any right to publicly criticize this woman when it comes to her choice.. it was HER choice.. I wonder how many children you have!!
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Old July 21st, 2010, 10:52 AM
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Debra, we still don't know whether or not you are a nurse.

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Old July 21st, 2010, 10:54 AM
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Debra, we still don't know whether or not you are a nurse.

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It makes no difference. She isn't giving medical advice here just giving opinions. The same as everyone else.

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Old July 21st, 2010, 06:59 PM
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It makes no difference. She isn't giving medical advice here just giving opinions. The same as everyone else.

Take care,
Mike
Debra

Thanks Mike. I just ignore those kinds of posts, but with the constant repetition of the same question, I was starting to wonder if Manuel and Parrot Lady were not feeling well!

The topic of Sarah Palin parading around her special needs child or saying that Sarah said she can see Russia from her back yard are just couple of examples from Alinsky's playbook, which states when you don't have any real answers, try to offer ridicule instead of offering valid comments.

Instead of worrying what Sarah Palin can or can't see from her backyard maybe it would be more productive to wonder where all of these millions of jobs created by the Obama stimulus plan are? Or ask where in the Constitution does any one man have the right to shut down all offshore US drilling, against the order of two courts, and then demand that the companies affected continue to pay all employees.

Also if someone thinks Sarah should stay home with her children, then I am sure that they would think that the same about the liberal Nancy Pelosi, and feel that she should also have stayed home with her children.

Women can have a family and a career. There are a whole lot of women who have more than enough talent to do both!

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Old July 21st, 2010, 07:34 PM
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Before you ask.. Henry and I are NOT the same person and I've only questioned you once regarding your being an R.N. Its just N.D. that I find much of the comments by her to be vacuous (sp).. Guess you don't know any unemployed people in your area who are about to loose their homes.. Just today they signed the new financial protection bill to protect us against the wild schemes of the banking industry. As for Hiliary Clinton.. my goodness, your jealous of her education, her legal career and perhaps she successfully raised a lovely daughter..No, you don't get it.. what I believe as a mother..that a woman who has a child with a handicap...needs to act formost as a concerned mother for my child and not be an abent mother..not a future Presidental candidate. A wonderful local woman who I respect once told me the phrase... you must know what your enemies are thinking and hold them closer... You know who from Alaska certainly does not have the brains/intelligence of a woman like Mrs Clinton.. Sadly she is making a clown out of herself and she doesn't deserve it..Mrs. Palin that is..She is being mockery of... putting her foot in her mouth very often lately.. BTW.. I go to Maine and N.H. quite often...does that qualify me for office?? No, I am not name calling you or Mrs Palin, but wondering your qualifications and hers. Certainly my name says it all I am owned by parrots and that is why I am Parrot Mom...now.. are you a nurse?
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