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Martin February 17th, 2002 07:51 PM

Fed up about potty rules!
I am completely fed up. Just found the Celebrity website confirimg the pull-up policy that states that 3 yr olds must be fully potty trained.

How do they expect new 3 yr olds to be fully potty trained (particulalry with starngers!) - well at least I haven't wasted any cash but was very close to bboking until I stumbled across this.

Please can somebody reccomend a cruise line who understands 3 yr old toilet issues! and doesn't hide such conditions from you when you try and book as this is driving me round the bend.


MIKE February 17th, 2002 11:32 PM

Re: Fed up about potty rules!
Martin, I believe that Celebrity made this decision based on politics.
I've always thought this particularly line was for adults more advanced in age. Much like HAL. Family friendly was not part of their plan. They do have childrens programs but only for certin seasons like spring and summer. I've never considered traveling this line, even though I have traveled Princess and the whole family loved it. My wife and I are cruising the EOS in April and AOS maybe in October. The best kids programs I have ever heard in the cruise industry. Some say better than Disney. You may want to look at RCCL and Carnival. Carnival is the only line that changes diapers. Princess will page you if your little one needs to be changed. Grand Princess is my favorite ship.

Rick February 18th, 2002 12:06 AM

Re: Fed up about potty rules!
I like Celebrity more and more <G> kind of cruise line!

donnajo February 18th, 2002 07:30 AM

Re: Fed up about potty rules!
I agree, Rick. I would rather the Infants and toddlers (very small children) not be on my sailing. That's why I sail Celebrity.

pamda February 18th, 2002 10:35 AM

Re: Fed up about potty rules!
Hi, Martin ...

It's been a while since I had small children (the T-Rex was just coming into favor at the time) but back then, you couldn't send your child to pre-school if he or she were not potty trained. Of course, TWO was the age to train the little dragons back then. If one had a kid over, say, two-and-a-half still in diapers someone would look down a nose and say, "You mean he/she is not potty trained YET?"

I do have to say that if anyone ever washed cloth diapers, there was a huge incentive to get the kids out of them and turn the diapers into dustcloths.

Times change.

It doesn't help you, but I believe that Celeb has kids' programs 52 weeks a year. They do an excellent job. There were 250 little darlings on our Thanksgiving cruise and you'd barely know there were kids on board. Except for two of them -- whom I would cheerfully have executed along with their parents.

Personally, I don't think that cruising with a toddler (or an infant) would be much of a vacation. It's hard to "vacate" when you have your own personal limpet.

I love children (I'd better, I have four of them) but I tend to agree with others that a cruise ship is not the best venue for them. My opinion, don't hit me too hard.

Again, times change and family cruising is the fastest-growing segment of the industry.

Now that I've had my infamous Monday morning rant (a different subject each week, stay tuned) I'd say take a good look at RCI or Princess.

And I do understand your frustration.

pamda -- CM First-Cruisers Editor

Lisa February 18th, 2002 02:02 PM

Re: Fed up about potty rules!
One reason, is liability issue - if I were a counselor in a children's program on a ship, I would be very reluctant to change an infant's or toddler's diaper - they counselors would be so vulnerable to charges of abuse; also, would you really want a stranger who you don't know changing your child's diaper? Just some food for thought.......

gail February 18th, 2002 02:18 PM

Re: Fed up about potty rules!
Martin, I am not aware of Princess or Carnival, but RCCL has the same policy. They will not accept any children who are in diapers or pull-ups and are not fully toilet trained.

CHARLENE HEMPLER February 18th, 2002 02:42 PM

Re: Fed up about potty rules!
I am not positive but i have heard that Carnival will take childre 2yrs. into there Camp Carnival. Never heard "HAS TO BE POTTY TRAINED"... How rude.... I again have never taken children on a cruise. But I have never had a problem with Children on any cruise I have taken either. Call Carnival and take the child and have a great vacation. I love Carnival....... Even with Children allowed. I have 5 grand children and love to see the little ones there too.

Rick February 18th, 2002 03:18 PM

Re: Fed up about potty rules!
Carnival advertises "supervised year round Camp Carnival Program for young cruisers 2 thru 15 years of age". Celebrity "offers programs for 4 age groups....Shipmates 3-6....Cadet 7-9...Ensigns 10-12 and Admiral T's 13-15 and 16-17....avail year around and vary depending on the season." RCCL......." Adventure Ocean Youth Activities Program....3-5 6-8 9-11 12-14 15-17" Princess......"children under age of 2 not permitted in the youth and teen center...will not diaper, administer meds, bottle feed or provide meal service....babysitting not avail on any Princess ship"

MIKE February 18th, 2002 05:38 PM

Re: Fed up about potty rules!
Wow Rick you know alot about the kids programs! Are sure you never took the kids? LOL

Rick February 18th, 2002 05:59 PM

Re: Fed up about potty rules! I have'nt. Just took info from the cruise line books

Cindy February 19th, 2002 03:24 PM

Re: Fed up about potty rules!
Carnival absolutely changes diapers, only line that does. We've sailed twice on Carnival with our young children and have had the time of our lives and once on the Grand Princess and have had the time of our lives! Carnival changes diapers, Princess beeps you if and when they need changed. Both lines take kids 2 and up.

Please visit the family cruise board here (under chit chat for cruisers arrow), the family vacation board at Parent's Place on ivillage, and other boards. Cruising is IDEAL for young families and for families with infants. Waiters and staff DOTE on kids. Unlike this board, irl, people go their own way on the ship and mind their own business. Cruising is a great way to enjoy time as a family and a little time to yourselves. I did a full web page/review of our cruise on the Grand Princess that I will gladly email you the link to if interested. I don't want to post that here for obvious reasons . :) My youngest was trained though at that time even though he was 2, but my oldest didn't train till a month shy of 4. You are doing well letting your child lead his or her own training, good job. :)
As someone said in a previous post, family cruising is the largest growing segment of the cruise industry. People want to get away WITH their children, enjoy playing with them on great beaches, pools, and watching them see new and facinating things, and yet have SOME time to enjoy themselves too. Cruising is a vacation for everyone. Pick either Carnival or Princess and you will have a wonderful time. I don't know if RCCL will page for diaper changes or will just not accept untrained kids. More lines than Carnival SHOULD change diapers, esp given changing cruise passenger demographics. This is a valid gripe, and Celebrity has lost our cruise $$ to RCCL this time and next for their less than par kids program rep. LISTENING CELEBRITY REPS????????? BRAVO CARNIVAL!

We've gone on 5 cruises so far, will be up to 7 by the end of this year. We got hooked on our honeymoon, saw then how much families could enjoy themselves onboard on our 2 cruises prekids, and have taken the kids with us on every cruise since they were born, first family cruise when oldest was 17mos, and I was 7 mos preg, next when we had them at ages 3 and 19 mos, and last year at ages 4 and 2 1/2. This cruise they will be 5 and 3. Look at all your cruise options and you will find the right ship for your family for this cruise.


pamda February 19th, 2002 04:38 PM

Re: Fed up about potty rules!
Cindy ...

It's nice to see the point of view of a parent of young 'uns.

Me, I'd rather spend a week at boot camp on Parris Island than cruise with my own toddlers, but I think it's terrific that so many people do it.

Just keep them out of my way so I don't eat them.

(I usually smile before I bite!!!)

All best,

Aunt Pamda

p.s. Just so there is no misunderstanding, I meant the above to have some humor going on.

Rick February 19th, 2002 05:35 PM

Re: Fed up about potty rules!
Gezzzzzz enough about poopie nappies......That is the last thing one should have to be concerned about on a cruise. That sure would make for a fun are in the casino....hitting it BIG and you get paged to come to the nursery to change a diaper....oh yea that would be fun :). OR you are sitting in a beautiful ships dining room....getting ready to bite into delicious lobster and you notice a smell coming from a crying baby at the table next to you..oh yea, that really makes for a great cruise experience. Parents with babies need to get a clue and seek a different form of vacation!

MIKE February 19th, 2002 07:04 PM

Re: Fed up about potty rules!
Rick I see your point with babies. There is nothing like the smell of pampers during dinner. My wife and I never cruised with kids that young. Tommy was 17 months and on his way to becoming potty trained when we first cruised with children. He's a big boy. He loves to eat so dinning was pretty quiet. I got to put those first pics on the board.

donnajo February 19th, 2002 07:09 PM

Re: Fed up about potty rules!
Again, that's why I sail on Celebrity. We may lose the poopy diaper crowd, but we gain the adult crowd!
As far as cruising with your children, most of the kids are in the children's groups all day. That's not spending time with them.
The kid at 2 or 3 years old remembers NOTHING about the vacation. I used to live in Orlando and the poor little tiny kids that got dragged thru the heat at Disney World screaming, crying or asleep would make your skin crawl! There are alot of great vacations that would be more appropriate for an infant or toddler than a cruise.

Kuki February 19th, 2002 07:41 PM

Re: Fed up about potty rules!
Rick wrote:
>. Parents with babies need to get a clue and seek
> a different form of vacation!
> Rick

Rick.. come on now times are changing and you have to change with them or get left behind <G>

There is no question most cruise lines are trying desperately to attract more families. Some are accepting children as young as 6 months old, and many are lowering the ages requirements for their kids programs from 3 to 2 years old.

I have no problem with kids being taken on cruises as long as the parents take responsibility for the kids, and the cruise lines take responsibility for assuring the remaining passengers that they do.

What's important is the babies have formal clothing for the Captain's Welcome Aboard Party!

Again it's all a matter of the cruise line enforcing appropriate behavior, everything from babies, to those who over indulge in blender drinks, to smokers, to...... (fill in the blanks)


Rick February 19th, 2002 11:48 PM

Re: Fed up about potty rules!
"What's important is the babies have formal clothing for the Captain's Welcome Aboard Party!"

That is a good idea! lol.......Kuki, again your sound reasoning keeps this board balanced....:)

Orlana February 20th, 2002 01:15 PM

Re: Fed up about potty rules!
BRING YOUR TODDLERS. After all you're paying the same price as the rest of us...right? My husband and I are cruising in 2 weeks without our 3 kids ages 6,4,18mons. Only because the Grandparents begged for them and we could use a break. We usually take them on vacation. While I look forward to the break I will be happy to help others who need an extra hand. So don't worry about the old crotchety coots who don't want to be bothered with what is essentially their future. No wonder people say each generation is worse than the last. No one who's past their prime wants to be bothered with them.

CHARLENE HEMPLER February 20th, 2002 01:39 PM

Re: Fed up about potty rules!
Very well said, Orlana! I am a grandmother of 5 and would love to see children on my next cruise.Children are our future!

donnajo February 20th, 2002 02:43 PM

Re: Fed up about potty rules!
First of all, I am not old or "past my prime" and I don't dislike children. But, again, when you are talking about a toddler still in diapers, the vacation is not for them, it's for you. You can say over and over how it's really for them, and oh, they will have so much fun! but I, for one do not believe it. Kids that little cannot remember their vacation. Also, it is good for parents to spend some time away from their kids.

Rix February 20th, 2002 02:45 PM

Re: Fed up about potty rules!
I have to agree on that Donnajo

Rick February 20th, 2002 02:52 PM

Re: Fed up about potty rules!
you say "BRING YOUR TODDLERS. After all you're paying the same price as the rest of us...right? My husband and I are cruising in 2 weeks without our 3 kids ages 6,4,18mons. Only because the Grandparents begged for them and we could use a break. " Excuse me while I laugh <G> Just tell your parents NO....we want to take our kids lol. Also, if you can explain how taking a baby on cruise will mold the little one into a good future citizen......please enlighten me.

Rick February 20th, 2002 02:56 PM

Re: Fed up about potty rules!
Carrying babies on cruise has nothing to do with our future.....But since you welcome babies there....then I am sure you would have no prob with 3 or 4 babies at your table <G>

Rick February 20th, 2002 03:07 PM

Re: Fed up about potty rules!
Well said Donnajo. Orlanda really does'nt want to take the kids or she would. Like others here I have seen iqnorant parents pushing babies in strollers in extremely hot climates and exposing them to environments/travel not good for them. They all have the same ole tired excuses and if you have an opposing view they all resort back to the the "old coot" thing. By all means take kids on cruise if you want....but at least wait till they are old enough to enjoy it.

CHARLENE HEMPLER February 20th, 2002 03:16 PM

Re: Fed up about potty rules!
That's right I wouldn't have a problem with Babies at my table. I think I will give up reading the Cruise Gripes. They are really stupid. I just go on my vacations and enjoy myself. No Gripes or Complaints.

Rick February 20th, 2002 03:24 PM

Re: Fed up about potty rules!
please don't do that. its okay to disagree :)

Lisa February 20th, 2002 04:02 PM

Re: Fed up about potty rules!
Different strokes for different folks. I personally go on a cruise to get away from it all. I don't feel like sharing a hot tub with a toddler in diapers (has happened MORE than once and mommy and daddy sit there and laugh while the diaper disintegrates in the hot tub - totally gross and unsanitary) or the kid is splashing everyone in the face - and mommy looks surprised when we ask her to control her kid (Is he disturbing you?? - she looked shocked when we said Yes!). I don't like screaming kids in the dining room (mommy and daddy are too into their meals to realize toddler is bored to tears and tired to boot). I don't mind if kids cruise as long as their parents realize that they need to adjust THEIR schedule to meet the childs - and to ensure that for the most part others are not disturbed by their kid's behavior. Kids are great and they are the future, but please be considerate of others - we all take cruises for different reasons and respect is needed on both sides of the issue.

Cindy February 20th, 2002 04:19 PM

Re: Fed up about potty rules!
Don't worry, I see the humor in your post. ;) But at least dealing with your own toddlers at sea is a lot more pleasant than being stuck in the same 4 walls endlessly. I'd take that trip to Paris Island myself if our only vacation option was driving hours and hours and hours on end to get to some inky dinky tourist trap for 2-3 days before driving what seems like longer hours and hours and hours back home.

My kids won't devour any fellow passengers either. (At least it hasn't happened yet.)

Cindy February 20th, 2002 04:45 PM

Re: Fed up about potty rules!
IF you end up sharing a hot tub with a toddler again, point out to the parents that toddlers can easily DROWN in hot tubs if their foot were to get stuck in the suction.

I've yet to see a mom and dad enjoy a meal with a screaming kid, esp a mom. I've also never yet seen in either a really nice restaurant or a cruise, a parent just sit there with a screaming child, the mom usually ends up walking around with the child or removing him or her. I'm seriously surprised if that mom was ignoring the child totally, that the toddler wasn't throwing glasses, plates, cutlery etc around the room. That toddler could have started a unique game of "darts" with steak knives. What you've seen is an exception of kids and parents in the dining room, not the rule. Fortunately cruises do have other dining options if needed. That's one of the reasons cruising is so great for families, there ARE choices.

Most parents are used to adjusting their lives around their children and that doesn't change, at home or at sea.

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