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  #91 (permalink)  
Old November 26th, 2005, 01:14 PM
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Thomas, I must really have got on your back,,,sometime or a lot of times.

It was my opinion; please don't be so condescending in that you feel you have to start the post with "Try to follow this carefully"

dear oh dear, again thought better of you. Let's just agree to kick the crap out of each other everytime that one or other of us says something. Ready? well I am. Got your tame delete button doorman ready?

Post edit by DavidB after reading further

Actually Thomas, dont bother with the challenge I've read all your posts, well the last 200 and its not worth it. I do more than one liners, like

"List your pet peeves and let's see what get's the goat of CM people:

What are you thinking about that is troll talk!

You then justify it with
"Mine
People who let 10 car lengths get between them and the car in front of them after the light turns green. Uh.......excus "

emmmm I think I now know or understand the mentality of the person that I am reacting to,,,,, okay you win, you got it tied down bud. Can't compete at that level.

Fisch, no disrepect but get a life or at least a reality check as to where the problem actually is. They cant send emails, make cell calls etc etc.

Look outside the box people
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Old November 26th, 2005, 03:39 PM
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DavidB,

You've lost all credibility with me, bud. I always found your posts to be amusing but you lost it here. I talked to many employees on the NCL Dawn and the HAL Oosterdam who do take care of personal business as I have mentioned. I don't make things up just for the sake of seeing my posts here.

Are you related to Sailing Gal? Don't bother responding. This post is boring and ridiculous.

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  #93 (permalink)  
Old November 26th, 2005, 04:30 PM
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People who work on cruise ships are human too......and I try to remember to treat them the way I would want to be treated.
I think that your point here is well stated, Lisa. I also expect to be treated the same as I treat others.

I did not treat her badly on purpose. It was not my choice to be late. She made a conscious effort to treat me in what I consider an inappropriate manner. I did not make a choice to treat her badly.

In what way did I not treat her as a human?
I also noticed that you said, "I try to remember". This is all we can do right?

Your a nurse right? So you know that sometimes people have to be on medicine that makes them forgetful and tired. I have systems in place to make this work at home like writing notes. My system fell apart while away. I saw this and make special effort to not let somethig like this happen again It is not pleasant to try hard to remember everything but sometimes I may not catch all the information that I need. Sometimes when a person does something that appears one way, there may be explanations behind it that become out of there control sometimes. Service people should also consider this when working with the public.

Karen
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Old November 26th, 2005, 05:19 PM
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Fish,
Your right on stating that the person being rude is subjective. Each person will view it differently. I also feel that your statement that this thread is boring is also your subjective view.
This thread has helped me and DavidB has a better understanding of that. That may be why he is quick to come to my defense. He knows that I am not the kind of person that some of the posts here are suggesting. It is appreciated, David.


And David,
This wasn't even the gripe I mentioned that I had not handled well. I think far less controversial than this one. I will have to save that one for next month.

Karen
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Old November 26th, 2005, 06:18 PM
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Someone please smack me in the head if I miss gripes for a few days!!

My issue, way back, was that RCCL has incorrectly (in my opinion) stated the opening hours during lunch of the kids program on a certain day. I also got a rude (I've been around people long enough to read into choice of words, facial expression, and body language to know what rude is) response and was billed 120 bucks for 1 hour times 2 kids. I wrote an email to a "big picture" kind of person in the cruise line and they agreed with my opinion, and apoligized for the rudeness. I stated in my email that I did not want reimbursement of the charge, and that it takes a bit to promt me to write a complaint to someone.

In response to the initial question, rudeness is not acceptable from the employee, or the customer. But having experienced rudeness myself, in a similar situation, I can say that at the end of the day, all other things being equal, there is 1 difference between a customer and an employee. I understand the nature of that subtle difference in my line of work.

In no way should the OP have felt bad and avoided that area because of this person. I think you (the OP) is a kind hearted person who feels bad because they made someone else feel bad. The employee had no regard for your feelings when they made you feel this way. I am not as nice a person, and would have destroyed the employee for even trying to make me feel bad. If it was my mistake (in my case, I didn't think it was my mistake but I still apoligized for the fact that she missed her lunch), I would apologize. But if that person tries to lay into me even if it really was my mistake, I would not react then, but use other means of "rectifying" their behaviour.

Thanks,

banker
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Old November 27th, 2005, 01:04 AM
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DavyB,

You want to object to a post I made on Chit Chat about listing pet peeves??? Puhleeese! That forum is for "whatever's on your mind" and I posted it to bring out what bothers others on this web site. If you don't like it please ignore it. I suppose the respondents were o.k. with it.

Also, please don't talk in absolutes. Saying things such as: It is NEVER o.k. to ....., There is NOTHING worse than........, It is ALWAYS best to...., portrays you as claiming your opinion is gospel, the word, the truth, and all others should be discounted.

" No member of staff in any organisation has any right to be rude to a customer, no matter the circumstance. ".... DavidB

You see, if you had stated "No member of staff in any organization should be rude to a customer unless the customer is deserving" I would have agreed wholeheartedly. But to claim "no matter the circumstance" sorry, that's not in my world.

Regards,
Thomas
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  #97 (permalink)  
Old November 27th, 2005, 11:06 AM
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Hi Banker,
It is good to see your two cents in all this. Greatly appreciated! As you can read, I have been put through the shredder on this thread but have come back out in one piece. I can see why David likes a feisty gripe going. Gets the blood pumping! I am starting to enjoy it. I can read the posts without even flinching now.

Thomas says to David-
Quote:
Also, please don't talk in absolutes. Saying things such as: It is NEVER o.k. to ....., There is NOTHING worse than........, It is ALWAYS best to...., portrays you as claiming your opinion is gospel, the word, the truth, and all others should be discounted.
Thomas,
I think that pointing out a person's use of words is a passive aggressive behavior albeit a well educated one. It takes attention away from the person's intended message and is a ploy to gain control of the situation. I live with an expert in this tactic.

Karen
  #98 (permalink)  
Old November 27th, 2005, 02:19 PM
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OK To Thomas and David B

The only way to solve your obvious contempt for each other is if each of you ignore the others' posts.
This thread has gone very nasty with a lot of name calling and bitterness about something which only involved one person.
Personally I think the ship employee had every right to be angry at the late mother especially when she was being paged and didn't even have the temerity to wear the pager or answer it.
So can this now be the end?

JennC
  #99 (permalink)  
Old November 27th, 2005, 02:22 PM
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Karen,,,big kiss, see you can stand up for yourself, but like a lot of people it takes circumstance and reflection to press that button.

Most non bullies or those not on the edge in normal life are taken aback when presented with confrontation. Most normal people get the hit, walk away, think about it and then get angry.

In this scenario, on a ship, on a vacation. You dealt with it the right way, in not getting immediately into a slanging match with a crew member. If you do that, then the table turns, you are the aggressor. And in public opinion viewing and the management reacting to you in that mood. They see a shouting hysterical person and react accordingly, you’re the bad guy.

A bar, pub, restaurant same scenario. Wild person,,,, call the doormen.

So, what do you do? Take it all in calmly and come back the next day asking for the boss to discuss what happenned the night before

They hate the person that comes back the next day and then complains about the night before in a logical manner. Or takes the time to write all the facts down as a letter of complaint, they don’t know how to deal with it as there is no confrontation. Then you usually win the point and never through shouting the loudest.

Thomas, your reaction to me is my use of words! What can I say. a great expression I have learned from you guys is,,,WHATEVER and lets not forget Duuuhhhh. Those words you quote only sum up my feeling at that moment in time, but I never expect anyone to think they are gospel. Its an opinion, nothing else, nothing more and given that, some will agree, some will not I understand that.

Jennc, two points, opinion is opinion and given here in a way that does not break the forum or CM rules,,,who made you a new monitor after 10 posts on how Thomas and I can react to each other in post and who are you to call for a forum to end? Open question

The last bit, fine thats your opinion and if you are bored, no need to reply or read

Fisch, sorry you took this that way, but I aint here just to be amusing and depending on the scenario I give my opinion and what I think is right or wrong,,,only one opinion
  #100 (permalink)  
Old November 27th, 2005, 06:55 PM
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David, you are just getting too mellow!

I just had to post something in gripes, and this one seems to be the only gripe floundering on! I really have no opinion, since when our children were little, we never parked them with a kid sitting service. I do know that we centainly would not have been late retrieving them if we did!
  #101 (permalink)  
Old November 28th, 2005, 07:45 AM
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Quote:
So, what do you do? Take it all in calmly and come back the next day asking for the boss to discuss what happenned the night before
David,
I like this. Useful information that I will put into practice. I missed my opportunity at that time but will do this in the future. It will be a challenge but the only way to get experienced at something is to just do it.
Everything in the post was quite thought provoking and I thank you for writing it. Enjoyed reading it.

Jennc,
I just had to write that I enjoyed learning a new word. I did not know what temerity means and had to look it up. For anyone who does not know-

temerity- reckless boldness
  #102 (permalink)  
Old November 28th, 2005, 03:36 PM
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Karen, the only decision is walk away or deal with this now. If at the moment you feel strong enough, deal with it. But don’t cut yourself up later regarding how you reacted. That’s key

If you are too emotional,,always walk away from it.

Also consider by walking away, is this what I want or have I been bullied into this position

Consider will I accept this or do I want closure on this or do I want to shrug it off and accept the unpleasant experience as just that.

It’s about when to stand up or not. A crap meal in a restaurant, I accept it walk away, don’t come back. The price of it was not worth the hassle.

But when someone decides to go one on one with me then I have to deal with it. Then or later but something needs closure in my mind. I dont let it just fester feeling,,,I wish I had said,,,,,wish I had done. See thats why I am on here what I am, I get closure.

You found your closure on this thread, not everyone agreed but it got that monkey off your back and you will move forward, nice one.

Being clever is when to do it and gain the upper ground.
  #103 (permalink)  
Old November 29th, 2005, 12:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sailing gal
That may not technically be true if being late is considered rude.

Karen
IMO, it is the essence of rudeness!!!!!
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  #104 (permalink)  
Old November 29th, 2005, 01:27 PM
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Quote:
I did not treat her badly on purpose. It was not my choice to be late. She made a conscious effort to treat me in what I consider an inappropriate manner. I did not make a choice to treat her badly.
I'm sorry, Karen, this is pure and utter nonsense. You say you did not treat her badly on purpose. I would tend to agree with that part of the statement that says on purpose. But by being late, you did treat her badly (or rudely).

You say it was not your choice to be late. Just whose in the hell was it then. It wasn't the day care worker, nor was it your son. It certainly wasn't me. It was YOU - plain and simple!!

Quote:
I had to just ad this twist. The Camp Carnival was scheduled to open for orientation at a certain time but it actually didn't open until about (at least)20 minutes late We(the parents) were all outside looking at our watches, checking with others etc about the correct time. When we finally were let in, no parent mentioned the late time. Also, no crew member apologized. That was the time that they looked tired to me, at the orientation. Everyone waiting outside the door was actually acting very calm and that was a sailing out of NYC.
Somehow, you just seem to keep embellishing this story to make yourself appear in a better light. If the story in quotes above is factual - were the CC workers mentioned above rude? You can bet your bottom dollar they were. Should they have apologized, again YES they should have. Does this excuse you or what you did later in the cruise - absolutely not. In both instances you cite (OP and above quote) those who were late were rude.

Now Paul M. reads more into the alleged incident above, in that he sees this to be management problem within the department and taken on face value I would tend to agree with him. If all the facts are just as you present them.

I go back to the OP and keep trying to figure out just what it is that she said or did that had you almost in tears. What exactly did she do that made her a rude person - in YOUR eyes. From your post I can't figure it out. From some of your follow up posts I think what happened was really something quite a lot simpler than you want us to believe. You were 30 minutes late, she reminded you of that fact, told you that because of your being late, she missed her lunch and that PISSED you off. By being pissed off, you can legitimize your feelings that YOU consider her to be rude because she "took you to task" for being late.
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  #105 (permalink)  
Old November 29th, 2005, 03:57 PM
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Hi John,

I don't agree with this part.

Quote:
But by being late, you did treat her badly (or rudely
).

In my mind, being rude is conscious. You must be aware of it. I was not aware of it. I thought the camp was open until 5 and went at 12:30 to get Ryan.

Quote:
You say it was not your choice to be late. Just whose in the hell was it then.
It was not my choice to be late because I did not know I was late. I did not know that the camp closed at 12 and thought I could get my son at 12:30. I actually wanted to get him after an hour but DH told me to just let him enjoy himself. My choice was to leave him at the camp for two hours and then retreive him.
The funny thing is that I was going through my sons memories book and found a copy of the camp carnival rules. I can see now why I got confused. It is very tiny writing and lots and lots of information. I even have the name now of the girl who was snippy because the names are listed on the front.

Quote:
were the CC workers mentioned above rude? You can bet your bottom dollar they were. Should they have apologized, again YES they should have. Does this excuse you or what you did later in the cruise - absolutely not.
John,
The point I wanted to make here is that just to say be there is not the answer. We all are human. I didn't yell at them. If I said something snippy would that be ok for me to do? is that your point? I only remembered this bit about them being late after reading all the posts. People tend to get away with it when they treat me in a way that I think is inappropriate. Well, those days are ending. Even if it means not everyone will like me anymore. I can't make everyone happy. Too tired for that.

Karen
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Old November 29th, 2005, 05:18 PM
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Quote:
If all the facts are just as you present them.

I go back to the OP and keep trying to figure out just what it is that she said or did that had you almost in tears. What exactly she that made her a rude person - in YOUR eyes. From you post I can't figure it out. From some of your follow up posts I think what happened was really something quite a lot simpler than you want us to believe. You were 30 minutes late, she reminded you of that fact, told you that because of your being late, she missed her lunch and that PISSED you off. By being pissed off, you can legitimize your feelings that YOU consider her to be rude because she "took you to task" for being late.
I wouldn't agree with getting pissed off. I felt bad that she was upset and that I made a mistake. Those are feelings that I don't want to legitimize anymore. I just want to not feel them anymore as much as I too often do. Even if I didn't feel anything, and it just occured, I think to mention that "I missed my lunch because of you" is inappropriate. I wouldn't do it and if I did I would think it is wrong if I were in her shoes.
I agree that it is as Paul states-a managerial problem. You feel that there is more to it and I am being deceptive, this is not the case.
Karen
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  #107 (permalink)  
Old November 30th, 2005, 03:01 PM
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Karen, kick into touch. Let this one go.

Doc is turning this back again on you using the oldest self justification bully tactics.

Dear oh dear, explain their position, show some agreement and they jump in with after showing some consideration or care go with the line "It was YOU - plain and simple"!! Never willing to except your position or any justification.

Yeah many a beaten wife has heard or seen that coming, not saying Doc is, but its the same tact. Lets get something else going on here, lack of posting on new subjects is making you a target
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Old November 30th, 2005, 06:41 PM
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Quote:
Dear oh dear, explain their position, show some agreement and they jump in with after showing some consideration or care go with the line "It was YOU - plain and simple"!! Never willing to except your position or any justification.
What in the world are you trying to say, David. I consider myself an educated guy, but I haven't a clue as to what you said in the above quote. I have even less of a clue as to what you meant.

Quote:
Doc is turning this back again on you using the oldest self justification bully tactics.
Not at all, Dave. I have never wavered in my assertion that Karen was a part of (if not) the problem.

Quote:
Yeah many a beaten wife has heard or seen that coming, not saying Doc is, but its the same tact.
What absolute inanity. Simply because I disagree with Karen about what happened and tell her so, you call me a bully, or as you left-handedly refer to above (much worse). But then that goes right along with your tedious personality, doesn't it?
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  #109 (permalink)  
Old November 30th, 2005, 08:18 PM
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I think this has gone on long enough and we are getting into personal attacks here people so lets just let it go. Both parties were wrong so call it even and get on with life.
Jim
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Old November 30th, 2005, 10:39 PM
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Wait a minute here folks. Why has no one enquired as to what the "rudeness " exactly was.
Sailing Gal, did the staff member yell at you, did she call you names, did she swear or curse?

Or, did she inform you that YOU were LATE and because of YOU she MISSED 1/2 hr of her break. And that made you feel bad? And you think that is rudeness?

Unless she yelled, swore or name called, I think YOU were rude, and over sensitive, you expected her to just say, " ok" when you show up late, and even with your apolgy, ( which I wonder if it wasn't quailified) .

I don't feel sorry for you, I feel sorry for her. And writing a letter to get her fired is spiteful as it happened a long time ago( you said) and it is your inablilty to let go of it that is hurting you , not her actions.


So , really, what DID she do or say that was so rude?
  #111 (permalink)  
Old November 30th, 2005, 11:03 PM
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^^^^^^^
maybe no life to get back to?

banker
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Old December 1st, 2005, 10:28 AM
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Well, I hope that wasn't directed at me Banker, I have been on this board a year longer then you, yet have 1/2 the postings, evidently I do in fact have a life.
  #113 (permalink)  
Old December 1st, 2005, 11:10 AM
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Listen everyone.

Sailing Gal was rude for not picking up her kid on time.
The ship employee had every right to be mad at her.

Does the amount of postings that one has on these boards make a difference in what your opinion might be on a certain subject. ie David B the Scotsman told me I couldn't say anything because I only had 10 posts and now pg is telling Banker that he has a life because he only has half the post of Banker.

I think everyone needs to take a deep breath, step back and read the posts again and see how petty and childish they have become.


To David B
I really think you should give up the scotch, I can tell when you have had a few because you start to ramble more so than usual.

Signing off now probably for good
Jenn C
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Old December 1st, 2005, 11:16 AM
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I didn't think David B drank I always believed he was naturally the way he is.
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Old December 1st, 2005, 11:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pg.
Well, I hope that wasn't directed at me Banker, I have been on this board a year longer then you, yet have 1/2 the postings, evidently I do in fact have a life.
pg,

I am almost certain, that wasn't directed at you. But probably at some of us who have beat this one to death .



Quote:
Wait a minute here folks. Why has no one enquired as to what the "rudeness " exactly was.
Actually pg, I did do just that. Perhaps we could all provide better "opinions" if she were to reply, but she hasn't.

I happen to agree with you 100% and have written as much.
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  #116 (permalink)  
Old December 1st, 2005, 03:27 PM
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Quote:
Wait a minute here folks. Why has no one enquired as to what the "rudeness " exactly was.
I for one would love to know, "What was the rudeness?"

A clear explanation of what the OP felt was rude in the very begining of this thread may have produced entirely different results. Now, I'm not so sure we can get an entirely unbias account of the incident. There has been so much written about it...surely Karen might be tempted to add a little here and there to justifiy certain comments and actions.
(NOTE: NOT THAT SHE WOULD, OR WILL....BUT SHE MIGHT BE TEMPTED TOO.)

I enjoy reading other's opinions even if they don't agree with mine, it can broaded our scope of thinking... I still may not change my view-point, but then, thats o.k too.

[/u]
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Old December 1st, 2005, 03:54 PM
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Keep kicking, I've got the skin to take it, and if makes you feel better or lets you vent, go ahead. Its only text or web opinion, pick and choose the bits out of it you can comment on, I accept that.

But as I have stated before, I never post on the ability of an others ability to read outwith their own position in opinion or understanding. Dont get that okay, read it slowly.

So take it for what it is, and dont ask me to justify your reading.

As for the drunk, Scot thing, if thats the best you can do, that is stereotypical boring and does not show a lot of imagination as a reaction.
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Old December 1st, 2005, 05:43 PM
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OK David B

I for one know that you write on this board after you have been drinking because you ramble on and usually don't make any sense.

I am not stereotyping Scotsmen. I will just say to you if the Tam fits then wear it with pride.

I know you write with the intention of inciting "discussion", sometimes it works and sometimes you just P*** everyone off.

Whereabouts in Glasgow are you from?

JennC
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Old December 1st, 2005, 06:52 PM
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Now this the type of brutality I've come to expect. I knew the civility could only last so long. ! Unfortunately I know several people who will go on endlessly without making much sense, the ranting and rambling is not a definite sign of drunkeness, but it does give cause for speculation. Too funny!
  #120 (permalink)  
Old December 1st, 2005, 08:04 PM
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I have to borrow one from Banker's post to answer what I thought was rude. I will more specifically call it snippy.

Quote:
I also got a rude (I've been around people long enough to read into choice of words, facial expression, and body language to know what rude is)......
as for the below post-
Quote:
I for one know that you write on this board after you have been drinking because you ramble on and usually don't make any sense.
I don't agree with this. I think most of the time David makes sense and if it doesn't then I take a minute to re-read. Sometimes it's just realizing he says things in a different way from us here in the states.

Karen
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Ultimately, the only power to which a man should aspire is that which he exercises over himself.
~Elie Wiesel
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