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  #31 (permalink)  
Old August 16th, 2006, 03:15 PM
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Oh good, now I can breastfeed in the dining room and not worry.
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  #32 (permalink)  
Old August 16th, 2006, 03:24 PM
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I must say I am surprised. I would have expected women in 2006 to agree that they have a right to enjoy clothing-optional areas of the world if they choose, and a right to do so without any concern for judgemental eyes.

And guess what? If you refuse a child a doughnut all his childhood, then he fixates on it. It takes on an abnormal importance simply because it is being kept from him. If, however, you allow the occasional treat, this fixation has much less opportunity to develop. The same is true of nudity, it seems. If you never see it, you attach an importance that really isn't there. Better to have balance. It is not necessary to automatically sexualize the unclothed body.
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Old August 16th, 2006, 03:35 PM
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And yes, a week or so in a burqa would be an extremely valuable experience to Western women and women worldwide. How fortunate we are to have the freedom to show our FACES, much less our arms, legs, or breasts, without the oppression of a totally male-dominated society forcing bedspreads over our heads on pain of death. We can learn from all cultures lessons that make us further appreciate our own liberties as well as make us constantly challenge our own beliefs.
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  #34 (permalink)  
Old August 16th, 2006, 03:36 PM
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Ok, where did I say that "women in 2006 do not have the right to enjoy clothing-optional places in the world?" Wow, talk about pulling things out of thin air. I couldn't care LESS what "women in 2006" do or don't wear.
My point, which you choose to ignore, is that you implied that women who are "comfortable in their skin" prefer to be topless or nude on the beach and my response is that it's not REQUIRED of people who are comfortable in their skin.

Your donut analogy is pretty offensive, by the way. Women's bodies are not "treats" to be doled out as rewards.
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Old August 16th, 2006, 03:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skyeofthestorm
And guess what? If you refuse a child a doughnut all his childhood, then he fixates on it. It takes on an abnormal importance simply because it is being kept from him. If, however, you allow the occasional treat, this fixation has much less opportunity to develop. The same is true of nudity, it seems. If you never see it, you attach an importance that really isn't there. Better to have balance. It is not necessary to automatically sexualize the unclothed body.
Which is why we should allow our children to drink alcohol from birth, so they won't fixate on it and allow it to take on an abnormal importance when they're teens.

Perhaps a pina colada in a sippee cup?

I love this argument!!!

In fact, we could give kids porn at an early age, and they would get desensitized, then sex and nudity would not have an abnormal importance to them when they grow up!

Why didn't I think of that?
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  #36 (permalink)  
Old August 16th, 2006, 03:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skyeofthestorm
And yes, a week or so in a burqa would be an extremely valuable experience to Western women and women worldwide. How fortunate we are to have the freedom to show our FACES, much less our arms, legs, or breasts, without the oppression of a totally male-dominated society forcing bedspreads over our heads on pain of death. We can learn from all cultures lessons that make us further appreciate our own liberties as well as make us constantly challenge our own beliefs.
feel free to put on your burqa then. I don't need that, or lectures on the joys of being an American, to appreciate the freedom that I enjoy. It's pretty condescending to assume that women of the world are not aware of other cultures or societies.
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Old August 16th, 2006, 04:02 PM
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I wonder what an Amish woman would think about that?!!!
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  #38 (permalink)  
Old August 20th, 2006, 02:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skyeofthestorm
Of course I do not assume that people who choose to wear bathing suits have body issues! That would make me nothing short of ignorant, which I'm sure you didn't mean to imply. I personally choose to wear a bathing suit as I am a more modest person. That is not the issue. The issue is freedom of choice and active dismissal of people who want to judge others on the basis of body shape.
skyeofthestorm , thank you so much for your time in responding to responses to my original post. My PC has been down and I have not been able to reply.

Looking over the post here I see many people trying to change the subject. Like so many people, they try to make the WHOLE issue based on ones appearance. WOW, I though we where in the year 2006, not 1806!

I am not trying to spam this post with links. But some here really need to visit some body acceptance web sites, like AANR and the Naturist Society. (Just type in either word in Yahoo or Google search.)

By the way, there are more clothing optional beaches and resorts right here in the good old USA then many of the "clothing dependent" realize! In fact, we visit two Resorts right near Pensacola, FL and Ship Island in Gulf Port, MS.

Thankfully we live on the AL and FL Gulf Coast!
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  #39 (permalink)  
Old August 21st, 2006, 10:30 AM
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Hmmm ... I recall a message board a few years ago -- not sure which one it was, but it may have been this one. People were posting pix of various pax and having a laugh over their appearance.
I found it very cruel. Typically the picture was of an overweight person in a bathing suit or shorts.

You can be as comfortable as you want to be in your body, but in this country you will be openly mocked if you're not *perfect.* Maybe not in general clothing-optional places, where the playing field may be level.

But on ships with an isolated topless deck? I've heard too much snickering from those of the male persuasion about that deck.
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Old August 21st, 2006, 10:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AANR
Looking over the post here I see many people trying to change the subject. Like so many people, they try to make the WHOLE issue based on ones appearance. WOW, I though we where in the year 2006, not 1806!
I don't think posters got off topic at all.
Pretty much people discussed topless sunbathing, confidence in appearance, the purpose of a topless deck, etc.

I found your statement "We where so mad we almost walked off the ship and demanded our money back!" led to a discussion of the importance being placed on the opportunity to sunbathe topless in a community setting [topless deck] and it went from there.

Threads evolve ... just as real conversations do.
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  #41 (permalink)  
Old August 26th, 2006, 02:18 PM
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I feel you guys have to realistic about the "breast out" scenario on ships. Continental America gave the world mass pornography, either in film, videotape, internet or magazine....who invented PLAYBOY, HUSTLER and the rest.

You give so many mixed messages of social acceptance, that it is difficult for us in the rest of the world to keep up as to what your values actually are.

I can only conclude that as a Continent and major world power that you cannot agree amongst yourselves regarding what is acceptable in the world, so what chance do the rest of us have to understand and with live with that type of reaction to naked breast on a ship?

Confused
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  #42 (permalink)  
Old August 28th, 2006, 02:51 AM
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David,

Unfortunately you, and the rest of the world it seems, are befuddled by our seeming contradictive nature. It’s this way, and then it’s that way. I’m confused sometimes, myself.

We in the U.S. debate things until the cows come home, and then occasionally a bit more. Some see this as a weakness. I see it as a strength.

You see, debate eventually produces consensus. And once we’ve made up our minds, we’re difficult to beat.

And yet, we haven’t reached consensus about the breast.

So let’s talk about this thing, the human breast. A wondrous thing, really. It’s involved with the creation and then the nourishment of life. Humankind would never have survived without it.

And it’s at once reviled and worshiped.

In some cultures, it must be covered at all times, in others, it can be bared at will. In the U.S. it can be bared in certain circumstances, as long it’s not at half-time of the Superbowl. Of course, in the U.S., men can bare their breasts almost without regard.

So you’re confused? Good for you! You’re normal!

For what it’s worth, as far as breasts are concerned, I’m in favor of them. If I were to stumble across them on a topless deck, I probably would venture a look, and then out of respect, wander off whence I came.

And you’re right – we gave the world a graphic look at sexuality, and yet a breast at halftime got CBS a $500,000 fine. But please bear with us. We’re still trying to reconcile our Puritan origins with the views of the modern world.

Dean
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  #43 (permalink)  
Old August 28th, 2006, 08:08 AM
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After reading the posts about nude sunbathing, i had to respond. You people that think the couple has personal issues or whatever, you need to lighten up. Being a nudist myself, i have found the nudists i have met are the friendlyest and harmless. God, is sunbathing the worst thing? Only narrow minded people who think its all sex orgies. Get a grip.
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  #44 (permalink)  
Old August 28th, 2006, 02:31 PM
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Dean, your a good intelligent person, and nicely written, you made me laugh.

Christy.... now total nudity, that is a different scenario. As personally for all my acceptance in life, I am not getting the meat and two veg out either for my pleasure or for my fellow passengers disgust….And I don’t want to see “it? from others.

That's going a bit too far in acceptability. But I respect your position in the debate, but no way that would be acceptable in the bulk vacation market...even for the most tolerant of us.
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