Go Back   CruiseMates Cruise Community and Forums > Practical Advice > Travel Gripes!
Register Forgot Password?

Travel Gripes! Gripe about cruises or getting to one.(airlines, taxis)

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old June 12th, 2006, 08:29 PM
Senior Member
Cruise Maniac
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 175
Default Packing gowns and party dresses r a hassle

I love dressing for formal nights. I enjoy the stepping out and taking pictures. However, I would love to take one less peice of luggage. I wish I could get it in the small suitcase I planned on carrying. Do u have any ideas other than carrying a dressbag.
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
  #2 (permalink)  
Old June 13th, 2006, 01:21 AM
Senior Member
Cruise Maniac
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 145
Default

I guess it depends on what type of formal dress you like to wear. I don't really want to pack a long formal, I take cocktail length dresses on my cruises. They are usually slinky sparkly things that I roll up and put in a zip lock bag and hang up as soon as I get on board. I've only cruised RCI and am taking my first Carnival cruise this summer. I have always felt that I was on the high end of the formal spectrum, just under long dresses, if that makes sense. Most people were dressed similarly. My husband actually has to take more luggage than I do so he can pack his dress clothes!
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old June 13th, 2006, 09:33 AM
Senior Member
Admiral
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Palmer, Massachusetts
Posts: 12,716
Default

actually i find a garment bag a very easyand convenient piece of luggage. DH and son have to pack their suits, so i just hang up my dressess(long and short), i throw the shoes into the garment bag also. Ours folds in half and has a shoulder strap and good sturdy handle on it so it is fairly easy to manage.
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old June 19th, 2006, 05:58 PM
CLO CLO is offline
Member
Passenger
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 31
Default

Our first cruise, as everyone mentions, I packed WAY too many clothes, especially for our four formal nights. Since then I have worn the same long black, dressy, knit skirt and matching top (cowl neck, long fitted sleeves). Sometimes I wear my late mother's vintage rhinestone bling, sometimes my own "big girl jewelry" and sometimes a lovely scarf. A pair of high-heeled black pumps that I can wear for less formal nights also, if I wish, and I'm set to go. These knits pieces roll up in a suitcase, stuff in a drawer, whatever. If these pieces ever "die," I'll find reasonable facsimiles. I carry them all over the world, not just on cruises. Dressed up or down, they work great for me.
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old June 20th, 2006, 07:52 AM
mehawk's Avatar
Senior Member
Admiral
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Houston aka Space City, Texas, USA
Posts: 9,687
Default

Use a garment bag to pack the dresses in. For my own suits, I use one as well.
__________________
Michael

Cruised more times than I can remember.

Good people sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

Courage and perserverance have a magical talisman; before which difficulties disappear and obstacles vanish into the air.

Pick your company wisely! Hang around people who are going to help you become all God created you to be.
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old August 5th, 2006, 07:44 PM
Member
Familiar Face
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Columbus,Ohio
Posts: 41
Default

This will be the first time we've done the formal nights. The wife bought a long formal dress, Now the question is, how do you pack it? We have a garment bag that my suit will go in however, the dress is longer than the bag so how and where do you fold the dress to enable it to fit without causing it to need pressed once on board the ship? Is it even possible to do that or should she just resign herself to having the dressed pressed once onboard.
__________________
Legend 11-28-10
Legend 11-29-09
Fantasy 8-28-06
Ecstasy 11-04
Fantasy 04-05
Glory 10-05
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old August 5th, 2006, 08:07 PM
gambitscuba's Avatar
Senior Member
Cruise Maniac
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 248
Default

Throw it over the hanger.... like... you know the bars that some hangars have.... fold the dress in half and slide it over the hanger... for added stability so it doesn't slide off use some clothespins...
__________________
Monarch of the Seas - July '00
Enchantment of the Seas - June '01
Grandeur of the Seas - July '02
Horizon - July '03
Rhapsody of the Seas - Thanksgiving '03
Golden Princess - June '04
Carnival Ecstasy - May '05
Explorer of the Seas - July '05
Infinity - Doomed Voyage - July '06
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old August 6th, 2006, 12:04 AM
Senior Member
Admiral
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 4,771
Default

wolfie_47,

This will be the first time we've done the formal nights. The wife bought a long formal dress, Now the question is, how do you pack it? We have a garment bag that my suit will go in however, the dress is longer than the bag so how and where do you fold the dress to enable it to fit without causing it to need pressed once on board the ship? Is it even possible to do that or should she just resign herself to having the dressed pressed once onboard.

I would forego the garment bag. If you fold the dress or a suit neatly, it will be fine in a suitcase.

To fold the dress, put it face down on a bed and stretch the skirt out completely so it has no wrinkles. If it has pleats, ensure that the pleats remain folded. Next, fold the bottom of the points of the skirt in line with the torso of the dress so that the whole dress is of more or less uniform width. This may require two or three folds on each point, but keep the folds parallel. Also, fold sleeves over torso if applicable. Finally, fold the skirt up from the bottom of the dress as many times as necessary to fit in the suitcase. Place the dress in the suitcase in such a way that it cannot shift (for example, in the suit section of a two suiter or on top of other goods arranged to form a flat surface). Unpack the dress and put it on a hanger as soon as possible after reaching your destination. I have used this technique for a silk cape that's part of a Halloween costume, and it works quite well.

Norm.
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old August 6th, 2006, 03:28 PM
Member
Familiar Face
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Columbus,Ohio
Posts: 41
Default

Thanks for the advice, I will pass the information on to the Mrs.
Norm, We will have to add a piece of luggage for our "Formal" clothes as all the casual clothes fill up the normal suitcase we usually carry. Given that scenario, would your advice still be in favour of a suitcase instead of the folding garment bag?

Trying to get as many ideas as possible and then I'll let the wife look through them and select her choice. Now, if the dress comes out of the luggage wrinkled it will still, somehow, be my fault but at least I'll have a defense to make myself feel better.
__________________
Legend 11-28-10
Legend 11-29-09
Fantasy 8-28-06
Ecstasy 11-04
Fantasy 04-05
Glory 10-05
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old August 6th, 2006, 05:39 PM
Senior Member
Admiral
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 4,771
Default

wolfie_47,

We will have to add a piece of luggage for our "Formal" clothes as all the casual clothes fill up the normal suitcase we usually carry. Given that scenario, would your advice still be in favour of a suitcase instead of the folding garment bag?

Yes. Garment bags are a royal pain in the neck (or perhaps a bit lower...) when travelling by air.

I should add that I use a suitcase "roller back" "two suiter" (26") that's designed to carry dress clothing rather than a "barebones" piece with no "guts" to it. If you go with a "two suiter," you probably will be able to put your formalwear (jacket, pants, anv vest), your sport coat, and a couple pairs of slacks in the suit section and your wife's formal dress and all accessories (cummerbund, your dress shirts, studs and cuff links, ties, dress shoes, jewelry case, etc.) in the main section. When you get to the airport, you can check the case so you don't have to lug it onto the plane yourself.

Trying to get as many ideas as possible and then I'll let the wife look through them and select her choice. Now, if the dress comes out of the luggage wrinkled it will still, somehow, be my fault but at least I'll have a defense to make myself feel better.

The first law of thermodynamics: You can't win.

The second law of thermodynamics: You can't break even.

The intrinsic order of the universe: You can't quit the game.

Seriously, though, I find that unpacking my luggage and straightening out collars, etc., as soon as possible after arrival on the ship makes a big difference.

Norm.
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old August 7th, 2006, 03:26 PM
CLO CLO is offline
Member
Passenger
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 31
Default

Packing your luggage as tightly/full as possible keeps things from shifting around. I've also had moderate luck with hanging things in the bathroom and running the shower to steam out some wrinkles. We (my husband and myself) have recently bought wrinkle-free, pinpoint Oxford shirts from LL Bean (others make them also). They're 100% cotton but are truly amazing for not wrinkling. I wore one on a four hour car trip and it looked like I had just put it on at the end of the trip. And, in the grand scheme of things, I can't imagine it would break the bank to have one or two dresses pressed. PS: Why is it up to you to find ways to pack your WIFE'S dresses?!?
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old August 7th, 2006, 04:09 PM
Member
Familiar Face
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Columbus,Ohio
Posts: 41
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CLO
PS: Why is it up to you to find ways to pack your WIFE'S dresses?!?
She knows I frequent this board and there is so much information on here that I am usually able to answer her questions just from reading other peoples threads... Until this one. Trust me, she will be the one finding the way to pack it, probably using the suggestions from here, but, be just as sure that if it doesn't work out right it will somehow be my fault. I'm not quite sure how that fault thing works, but I am sure that the resulting divorce from questioning it would also be, yep, you guessed it, MY FAULT!!
__________________
Legend 11-28-10
Legend 11-29-09
Fantasy 8-28-06
Ecstasy 11-04
Fantasy 04-05
Glory 10-05
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old August 8th, 2006, 04:25 AM
Junior Member
Passenger
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 21
Default

Been on many cruises so here is what I do.I and the DH each take one piece of luggage.And one Backpack between us.I roll everthing.Shoes to the end of the case so when they stand it up shoes and heavy stuff are on the bottom.All liquids go in zipper compartment on out side of bag,in baggies.My Gown and dresses I pack last.When i roll my dresses they have never came out wrinkled.I once had done a test run a month before we left.I was not going to end up looking like I slept in my dress.Also,on my first cruise I bought a formal that I never have taken again as it is not travel friendly.Do not stress over the dress....it is your vacation.Also in the past we have stayed in a hotel a few nights and I have ironed some of our dress clothes.Trial and error is the name of the game.Only it can become costly.Have a great time.

Joyce
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old August 8th, 2006, 11:57 AM
colorcrazie's Avatar
Senior Member
Admiral
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Tampa Bay area
Posts: 2,706
Default

Wolfie,
There is a t-shirt now that says "I didn't say it was your fault. I said I was going to blame you."
Have seen everywhere, sounds like we might have a new customer here!
(Just kidding...I don't sell them.)
Marty
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old August 8th, 2006, 04:19 PM
Member
Familiar Face
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Columbus,Ohio
Posts: 41
Default

Marty,
I'm sure the wife would wear it with pride.
__________________
Legend 11-28-10
Legend 11-29-09
Fantasy 8-28-06
Ecstasy 11-04
Fantasy 04-05
Glory 10-05
Reply With Quote
  #16 (permalink)  
Old August 8th, 2006, 09:38 PM
Junior Member
Passenger
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 13
Default Garment bags are the best!

If my dresses are not heavy, I manage to get two of them in a garment bag. Works just fine. Accessories can go in there too!
__________________
Welcome to my blog about how we cruise around the world the fun way! Welcome to our world of adventure!
http://www.on-a-cruise.com
Reply With Quote
  #17 (permalink)  
Old August 12th, 2006, 01:44 PM
Senior Member
Cruise Maniac
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 147
Default

Several years ago I worked with a lady who bought dresses from overseas. I think it was Korea, but I'm not sure.
When she received the dresses, there would be 5 dresses rolled tightly in a small box. Maybe 6" x 10" x 2". She would unroll the dresses and hold them up right out of the box and they looked great, not a single wrinkle or crease.
Has anyone seen this before or know the trick to doing it?
Reply With Quote
  #18 (permalink)  
Old August 12th, 2006, 10:39 PM
Senior Member
Admiral
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: virginia beach
Posts: 1,298
Default

The more you cruise the less you will bring. I have learned that "less is more". I wear the same gown for both formal nights and revolve the rest of my wardrobe around a couple of basic colors. How many of you had to buy an extra piece of luggage just to cart your purchases home from a cruise? I take a medium sized piece of luggage, a book bag to cover any additional purchases, and a day pack, stuffed into the book bag, that is used to cart drinks, snacks, etc. I find that many people who travel feel that they have to bring their entire wardrobe with them. Isn't it fun to buy some clothing in the ports that you visit?
Reply With Quote
  #19 (permalink)  
Old August 13th, 2006, 04:42 PM
Floridanamaw's Avatar
Senior Member
Admiral
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Florida panhandle
Posts: 1,731
Default

I've read alot about dresses for the formal night. What about dressy pants (like the silky type) and a sparkley type blouse. I just don't do dresses that much. I have really hard feet to fit (small size and with a bunion) and like a bad organ transplant my feet reject most shoes with heels in about 10 minutes, then I am miserable the rest of the night. I don't want to stand out in the crowd with pants on, but I want to be comfortable. What do ya'll suggest? I can suffer for a while if needed though.
__________________
Carnival legend November 2009
Carnival Glory October 2007
Carnival Elation November 2006


Need some cruise help?
Reply With Quote
  #20 (permalink)  
Old August 13th, 2006, 04:54 PM
CLO CLO is offline
Member
Passenger
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 31
Default

I think dressy pants and sparkly tops fit in great. And there seem nowadays to be a fair number of flat shoes that are quite dressy but comfortable. No reason they couldn't be worn with a long skirt also, especially since they hardly show. You'll look great and will be LOTS more relaxed the next time around
Reply With Quote
  #21 (permalink)  
Old August 13th, 2006, 09:37 PM
Senior Member
Admiral
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 4,771
Default

Floridanamaw,

What about dressy pants (like the silky type) and a sparkley type blouse. I just don't do dresses that much.

I have yet to see an etiquette book thas says that "dressy pants" are proper attire for a "black tie" event, such a "formal" evening on a cruise ship, though I won't say that you won't see a few women wearing that sort of outfit for "formal" evenings on some cruise lines. If you want to go with a two piece outfit, a full length skirt would be a better choice.

Norm.
Reply With Quote
  #22 (permalink)  
Old August 13th, 2006, 11:02 PM
CLO CLO is offline
Member
Passenger
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 31
Default

I have yet to see an etiquette book thas says that "dressy pants" are proper attire for a "black tie" event,

Gosh, Norm, haven't you ever seen women in tuxedos? It's a very elegant look. If I were particularly concerned about it, I'd email the specific cruise line and ask their opinion. Having lived in a couple of quite cosmopolitan cities, I wouldn't have qualms about wearing the right type of pants for a formal occasion.
Reply With Quote
  #23 (permalink)  
Old August 13th, 2006, 11:28 PM
Floridanamaw's Avatar
Senior Member
Admiral
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Florida panhandle
Posts: 1,731
Default

Thanks to those of you who said it would be okay. I haven't decided yet, I was just asking if it might be okay. I'm not one of those women that loves to dress up, but I want to go to the formal night so I will do whatever I have to......this cruise will be the "most formal" thing I have done in about 12 or 13 years. My most comfortable clothes are my jeans or shorts and tennis shoes, that's just me. We camp out, we go hiking, we go to stock car races, more redneck than blue blood. I'm going for the fun not the fashion show. I really appreciate all the answers, it does help. I have a million other questions too. Thanks again. Maybe I will meet some of you on the cruise.
__________________
Carnival legend November 2009
Carnival Glory October 2007
Carnival Elation November 2006


Need some cruise help?
Reply With Quote
  #24 (permalink)  
Old August 13th, 2006, 11:46 PM
CLO CLO is offline
Member
Passenger
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 31
Default

more redneck than blue blood.

My mother always said that people who say they have "class" don't. You're going to have a lovely and fun time and you're also going to be dressed quite appropriately. You're right - don't miss the formal nights, eat caviar, "put on the dog," etc. You'll love it all.
Reply With Quote
  #25 (permalink)  
Old August 14th, 2006, 08:13 PM
Senior Member
Admiral
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 4,771
Default

CLO,

Gosh, Norm, haven't you ever seen women in tuxedos? It's a very elegant look.

Yes, but they were working as waitstaff for restaurants or for caterers. In twenty cruises, I do not recall seeing any female passengers dressed in a "woman's tuxedo." OTOH, the Navy's "dinner dress blue jacket" and "dinner dress white jacket" are similar to a "woman's tuxedo" but usually worn with the formal evening skirt (required & prescribable) rather than the formal evening slacks (individual option if skirt not explicity prescribed).

That said, the previous discussion was not about a "woman's tuxedo" but rather about "dressy pants' with some kind of sparkly top. I still think that a full length skirt would be a better choice than "dressy pants" with such a top.

Norm.
Reply With Quote
  #26 (permalink)  
Old August 14th, 2006, 08:43 PM
Senior Member
Admiral
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 4,771
Default

Floridanamaw,

My most comfortable clothes are my jeans or shorts and tennis shoes, that's just me.

On most cruise lines, that attire is quite acceptable in the daytime. Some cruise lines do not allow jeans in the main dining room even for breakfast and lunch, but there are plenty of other options -- the buffet, the poolside grill, often a pizzeria or a pizza and pasta bar, a spa cafe, etc. -- where jeans are okay. On most lines, though, that's too "dressed down" even for "casual" evenings. Mind you, you don't need to be uncomfortable. A nice top and a skirt for you and a polo shirt and a pair of khakis for your guy, worn with dress shoes, would be quite acceptable for "casual" evenings on any cruise line.

That said, there are a few exceptions to this. Windjammer Barefoot Cruises is as casual as its name implies -- shorts and a "T" shirt are acceptable anytime, even at dinner. Some of the coastal lines, which operate smaller vessels, also are very casual.

We camp out, we go hiking, we go to stock car races, more redneck than blue blood.

There's nothing wrong with that, but cruise ships traditionally are very much a "blue blood" domain -- which is why a "casual" means what a Brahmin would wear for a round of golf, "formal" (modified "black tie") evenings are an integral part of the package, and some lines also still have "informal" or "semiformal" evenings. On Celebrity cruises, for example, you can predict the number of casual evenings by dividing the length of the cruise by two and dropping any fraction. Obviously, uour commens indicate that dressing up for seven evenings (three "formal" and four "informal") on a fourteen-night cruise probably would not be quite your cup of tea, so to speak, so you probably would be more comfortable on a different line.

What I'm really suggesting here is to do your homework before you book so you can choose a cruise line on which you would feel comfortable. There is a fair amount of diversity of styles among cruise lines, and some would be a better fit than others. A good travel agent can help you to make a suitable choice.

Norm.
Reply With Quote
  #27 (permalink)  
Old August 14th, 2006, 10:03 PM
Floridanamaw's Avatar
Senior Member
Admiral
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Florida panhandle
Posts: 1,731
Default

Well, I've had people tell me it would be okay for the dressy pants and top and then some say that would not be "appropriate" at all. So I guess I will be out shopping for some kind of dress that I will most likely wear once and then it will hang in my closet for a while. And..I'm being told I would really be out of place wearing jeans aboard the ship. I know not to wear them in the dining room. Actually I will most likely have shorts on most of the time anyway or maybe skorts. My BF will dress up when required, but his main wardrobe in jeans and tees. I guess maybe we just don't fit in with the normal cruise crowd. This first cruise will be the test as to if we will do anymore. I really want it to be fun.....without stressing about the "dress code". Oh well, I'm looking for to it no matter what.
__________________
Carnival legend November 2009
Carnival Glory October 2007
Carnival Elation November 2006


Need some cruise help?
Reply With Quote
  #28 (permalink)  
Old August 15th, 2006, 12:15 AM
gambitscuba's Avatar
Senior Member
Cruise Maniac
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 248
Default

Jeans are perfectly FIne to wear around the ship (minus formal diningroom)... That's really all i wear on my cruises unless we're close to the equator... then i switch to shorts course... i also prefer to stay inside and play trivia rather than run around outside...
__________________
Monarch of the Seas - July '00
Enchantment of the Seas - June '01
Grandeur of the Seas - July '02
Horizon - July '03
Rhapsody of the Seas - Thanksgiving '03
Golden Princess - June '04
Carnival Ecstasy - May '05
Explorer of the Seas - July '05
Infinity - Doomed Voyage - July '06
Reply With Quote
  #29 (permalink)  
Old August 15th, 2006, 10:09 AM
Senior Member
Admiral
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Palmer, Massachusetts
Posts: 12,716
Default

Floridanawmaw- i see that you will be sailing on the Carnival Elation. Well, Carnival is one of the most laid-back mainstream lines when it comes to the dress code. You will be just fine in a pair of Dressy pants a sparkly or silky top and a pair of low dress heels - Others with foot problems have worn Chinese slippers on formal nights. As a matter of fact Platazzo pants are making a comeback - they are full and flowly and look like a long skirt. Don't go out and spend you hard earned money on a dress that you don't think that you will wear again. You also have another option- you can rent formalwear for your cruise, the standard formal wear for women is a long black skirt with a silky dress blouse, you will get rental information in your cruise document package.
As for jeans, i find them too hot, heavy and bulky for the Caribbean, you will be spending your days in shorts and your bathing suit. For casual evening wear, i love to just throw on a sun or sheath dress and a pair of flat sandals. Nice capris or a nice pair of slacks and a blouse will do you just fine.
As for your man, dockers type pants with a polo shirt, hawaiian print shirt or a nice jersey and casual shoes or leather sandals will do him just fine. A suit, tuxedo or suit separates with a dress shirt/tie and dress shoes is what is needed for formal nights.
Reply With Quote
  #30 (permalink)  
Old August 15th, 2006, 10:24 AM
Floridanamaw's Avatar
Senior Member
Admiral
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Florida panhandle
Posts: 1,731
Default

Thanks LisaK...I feel better about it. I knew I picked the Elation for a good reason. I suppose I won't have jeans on that much because of where we will be. We do have a really neat clothing store in my town that does sell evening wear really cheap...I might check there for a dress, but then all the grandkids wouldn't get that souvenier.........Oh well. Thanks again.
__________________
Carnival legend November 2009
Carnival Glory October 2007
Carnival Elation November 2006


Need some cruise help?
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
cruise, cruises, dresses, evening, formal, gown, gowns, knit, long, night, pack, packing, party, slinky, travel, wrinkle

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Getting to Galveston is such a hassle!! Grandy Carnival Cruise Lines 18 April 26th, 2007 12:09 PM
Packing gowns and party dresses r a hassle san007 Chit - Chat for Cruisers 9 June 13th, 2006 11:45 PM
Gowns... mehawk Cruise Dress / Packing 3 May 8th, 2006 01:25 PM
Great Tip For Purchasing Dresses & Gowns Online Ledyz Cruise Dress / Packing 0 April 24th, 2006 01:54 PM
Great Tip For Purchasing Dresses & Gowns Online Ledyz Styles At Sea 0 April 24th, 2006 01:51 PM


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


 

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:04 AM.
design by: Themes by Design

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.6.1