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  #61 (permalink)  
Old November 22nd, 2006, 04:22 PM
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I disagree, DBG.

You go on a cruise, you follow the dress code. It's a matter of respect -- self-respect and respect for your fellow passengers.
HAL will enforce dress codes as far as not allowing pax in T-shirts, shorts and tank tops into the dining room.

If I could not afford to dress within the parameters set by a cruise line, then I would find another vacation venue or a line that did not have a dress code to which I could not conform.

Just as an aside, I know a gentleman who is disabled and has very little range of motion on his left side.
It is a struggle for him to dress formally, yet he makes every effort to follow the code. He cannot wear a tux, but he does dress nicely and has never been turned away on formal night.
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Old November 22nd, 2006, 04:31 PM
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You are not missing my point, forget that....duh. Yeah easy answer "it has to be about you"

What some are missing is NO SHIP make's people turn on any night in a black tie or fancy dress.

Some people take what they read in a brochure and do it because they want to, plus as people it make's them happy...great for them.

But some dont, as it not compulsory.... so why and please tell me why, they should feel or be placed in a position of alienation because its not their thing on that night that is only offered as a suggestion of dress
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Old November 22nd, 2006, 04:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidBgood
You are not missing my point, forget that....duh. Yeah easy answer "it has to be about you"

What some are missing is NO SHIP make's people turn on any night in a black tie or fancy dress.

Some people take what they read in a brochure and do it because they want to, plus as people it make them happy...great for them.

But some dont, as it not compulsory so why and please tell me why, they should feel or be placed in a position of alienation because its not their thing
Guess you haven't sailed on HAL then.

You know, I could have a platinum Am Ex and show up at the classiest restaurant in Palm Beach, and if I am not dressed appropriately, they won't let me in.
Nothing wrong with that.
HAL is the same way on formal night. They might let someone in who is not strictly formal -- but has a dressy enough outfit on.
But nothing crass like jeans or T-shirts.

Btw, the OP of this thread was opining that cruise lines are getting too casual.
I would have to say ... you agree with him, but you -- unlike he -- appear to think that it's OK to dress however suits you.
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Old November 22nd, 2006, 04:49 PM
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Look I am not advocating a mentality of come off the beach and into the dining room, that I hate.

But some people can turn up smart and nice, clean smart and even in expensive clothes on those nights, but just not be in a Tux or whatever.

They are VERY presentable and a good chance in an outfit worth more than someones "aged tux". So what are you saying they cant be part of this night on ship?

And pleae do mix up land based restuarants that are "selective" based on an enforced dress code with cruise ships and yes I've been on HAL and again its a passenger expection, BUT I have never seen a smart and tidy person being turned away from dining even on formal night
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Old November 22nd, 2006, 05:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidBgood
Look I am not advocating a mentality of come off the beach and into the dining room, that I hate.

But some people can turn up smart and nice, clean smart and even in expensive clothes on those nights, but just not be in a Tux or whatever.

They are VERY presentable and a good chance in an outfit worth more than someones "aged tux". So what are you saying they cant be part of this night on ship?

And pleae do mix up land based restuarants that are "selective" based on an enforced dress code with cruise ships and yes I've been on HAL and again its a passenger expection, BUT I have never seen a smart and tidy person being turned away from dining even on formal night

DBG -- I only used a land-based restaurant as an example of dressing according to code. It goes to the argument stated previously about people having the $ to cruise but not to afford suitable attire.

No one is saying that a person dressed in a dark suit or dress cannot attend formal night.
If you recall, I said that HAL has moved from tuxes and suits to even allow a jacket and nice pants.
As long as a person meets a certain level of dress, he/she should be admitted.

As far as the price of clothing -- puh-lease.
My daughters have jeans that cost more than $250 -- and yet are not suitable for a formal dinner.
Yet a dress purchased for $25 at a thrift shop could be perfectly fine.

Price is not a factor in this discussion.
I think if someone wore a multi-million-dollar diamond-encrusted bra from Victoria Secret, and nothing else, she would be turned away from the dining room as well.
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Old November 22nd, 2006, 05:21 PM
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"Some people do not feel they have to turn up in second hand clothes or put themself into a position of buying a "suit" that they more than likely never wear again."

Considering that we ALL have to at one time or another attend a:

1. A wedding
2. A funeral
3. Business meeting OR job interview

Wouldn't it be a good idea for a man to have at LEAST one dark suit for at least those special events? Or have we arrived at the point...where NO event is that special anymore?

BTW: We've seen the code enforced on several different Celebrity and HAL cruises!

Since RCCI is geared toward 'mass market' cruisers, their dress code enforcement might be different. But when cruising RCCI we've not seen anyone in the dining room 'out of required' dress for the evening, but we've heard from others that it happens.

As for 'turning up' in second hand clothes...Hey...no one knows that they ARE 'second hand' but me! I buy only current styles, and I save a bundle of money by not having false pride that gets in the way of a smart shopping alterative.

Maybe the wording, 'second hand' clothes is the turn off...should we try using euphenisms like 'previously owned', 'gently worn'...or 'temporarily borrowed' clothes to make the idea...let's say, more socially urban?
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Old November 22nd, 2006, 07:40 PM
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Default Re: Here we go again

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fruitcake
"Typically, cruise prices are LOWER a year out and go HIGHER as the sailing date nears.
I always book ours at least 9 months in advance and I watch the prices.
Yes, there are some last-minute deals for those who want to wait and are not particular about the ship, room location or itinerary.

But then, unless you can drive to the port, there is always the air fare issue. The days of last-minute air fare deals are long gone. Planes are going out full. You have to book in advance to get the best deals.

Well, if you are thinking that way ... shouldn't she have canceled the cruise and used the money for her children and home? Wouldn't she have had trip insurance?
Don't forget, the cost of the cruise is a lot more than just what you pay to get on the ship.

Okay, so in YOUR experiences you have gotten the lowest prices in advance and in MY experiences I have gotten the lowest prices as last minute deals within the last month. I do drive to all of the ports. Mobile Alabama is 10 hours away and Port Canaveral and Miami are within 12 hours away so I choose to drive both ways.

As for the woman who did not cancel her cruise, don't post about someones character that you know nothing about. Just because I did not post the entire conversation did not leave a window up for assuptions. The woman and her husband went on the cruise because they had not purchased trip insurance and the cruise liner (Royal Caribbean) refused to let them have their money back since they were within their two weeks of sailing. They did try to get the money back and even sent in proof to the cruise liner that their house had burned down but Royal rfusedto reimburse them. The woman and her husband and children decided to go on the cruise since it had been paid for and they had not been able to sell their tikets to anyone else. They certainly didn't have to worry about the cost of food for that week as it was covered. So, shame on the cruise liner for not letting them have their money back.

And before you go and say, that's why she should have purchased trip insurance.. in extreme emergency situations, I have known of cruise liners to refund your money without the trip insurance. That's good customer service.

I think you lost focus of my original post however: All I was saying and will say now for the 3rd time is that the formal dining menu should be offered in alternative dining areas and then the wardrobe problem would be solved. Bottom line. I personally don't see why people are so concerned with what other people are doing. Live your own life through yourself and your own experiences, not through other people. I am speaking from a completely unbiased approach as I am one of the people that normally dresses up the most on my cruises. I have huge poofy gowns that I wear that I saved money for a long time to get. My first four cruises, I went on with 3 different people, wore the same dress all 4 times because it was the only one I had and was photographed with all 3 different people wearing the same dress and go figure the same backdrops. lol. So, that was slightly weird for me but hey, whatever works.

How dare anyone cast judgement on someone without even knowing them based on the way the show up dressed for dinner? It is because of GROWN UPS that feel this way that children pick on one another in school because it is not cool to wear Ked Shoes and Tie Dye Shirts with Legging Pants. Instead, it is only cool to wear saggy britches sporting the most popular name brands, to wear backwards baseball caps, shirts ten times too big and to treat all their elders with disrespect. This is a trend. Our children are being sent home from school suspended for treating children with less than what they have like crap. And they are learning it from snobby parents that feel you are not worthy of eating lobster on formal night if you don't dress the part, even though the person paid the same thing for their ticket as you! Get off your high horse and focus on yourself, your own drama, your own life, your own vacation and if you are going to complain about something, complain that life is too short and then make the most of it that you can.
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Old November 23rd, 2006, 01:57 AM
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We are who we are.

We communicate that to the world by how we speak, by our manners, and by how we dress. And we show respect for people and events in the same manner.

Dressing appropriately for an event shows respect for the event and the people attending.

On the other hand, dressing inappropriately for an event shows disrespect for the event and the people attending.

Some say that we should be concerned only with ourselves, that we should focus solely on ourselves and ignore everyone else’s manners.

And that is where we’ve gone astray.

Some protest that “I paid the same for my ticket as you?, and yet those persons did not pay the same. You see, those persons did not purchase the attire appropriate for the occasion.

When someone is disrespectful to me I am offended, as anyone would be. Looking the other way is not the answer. Disrespectful behaviour must be confronted. Not doing so grants tacit approval to it.

Cruising has become too casual, and attire is a symptom of the problem. It’s a matter of respect, as it always has been.

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Old November 23rd, 2006, 02:26 PM
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Dean, it is you opinion that cruising has become too casual. It is my opinion that it has not. Most cruisers want to be on a relaxed vacation, not strut around showing their fancy duds. I pay the same amount of attention to those dressed in tails ( not that there are any) or to those dressed in casual clothing. Neither affects the taste of my food.

I have seen no real change in the dress of passengers in the dining room
since our first cruise in l993, but we have only been on Commodore, RCI, Carnival, Princess and Norwegian. If I offends you to see me wearing only a dark suit on formal nights or changing to dress slacks and a collared shirt to go to th casino and show after dinner, I am sorry. I desire to be comfortable, not to impress anyone.

The people who run the cruise lines probably don't care what their passengers wear as long as the ships are full and they can make money from selling photos on formal nights.

Live and let live and you will live longer.
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Old November 23rd, 2006, 05:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by italianfemmy
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fruitcake
Well, if you are thinking that way ... shouldn't she have canceled the cruise and used the money for her children and home? Wouldn't she have had trip insurance?
As for the woman who did not cancel her cruise, don't post about someones character that you know nothing about. Just because I did not post the entire conversation did not leave a window up for assuptions. The woman and her husband went on the cruise because they had not purchased trip insurance and the cruise liner (Royal Caribbean) refused to let them have their money back since they were within their two weeks of sailing. They did try to get the money back and even sent in proof to the cruise liner that their house had burned down but Royal rfusedto reimburse them. The woman and her husband and children decided to go on the cruise since it had been paid for and they had not been able to sell their tikets to anyone else. They certainly didn't have to worry about the cost of food for that week as it was covered. So, shame on the cruise liner for not letting them have their money back.

And before you go and say, that's why she should have purchased trip insurance.. in extreme emergency situations, I have known of cruise liners to refund your money without the trip insurance. That's good customer service.
I'm begining to think your story may be just a little too pat or maybe you've padded the 'facts' a little for affect:

....Family's house burns to the ground 2 weeks pior to sailing...no money, no clothes, no travel insurance, and according to you, it's a good thing there's food on the cruise because they had no food...RCCI refuses in this desperate situation even to give the family a credit for a later sailing date. (RCCI should not be condemned for not giving them a total refund, but wasn't even a FUTURE cruise credit offered?)

You post this 'story' to elicit a specific emotional response in order to drive home your argument...we're touched...but at the same time expect us to believe that RCCI wasn't touched at ALL by the families tragedy?

BTW: The point of trip insurance is because 'extreme emergency' situations happen. That's why you purchase 'Insurance'.

As for posting on the family's situation...of course we're going to comment on it, that's WHY you posted the story.
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Old November 23rd, 2006, 11:13 PM
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Default Wow, now it is a matter of disbelief!

And so the saga continues. Let me tell you something fieldmouse, my story is not exxagerated nor made up as you call it. It is factual and real and you can make any assumptions you wish. If you choose not to believe someone that you barely know and choose to make ASSumptions then let the first half of that word make you what you are making yourself out to be.

There have been cases where the cruise ship has done something wrong and they have not offered any credit. On a Carnival cruise that I went on about a year and a half ago, the metal shower rod was not screwed in properly and when I moved the shower curtain, the rod came down and put a gash in my face and I was unable to do any of the shore excursions I had booked because they all involved water and it stung too much. Then, I did not want to be photographed because I looked like a troll. They CHARGED ME to go to the nurse and then told me no credits would be extended to me. On night 3 on this 7 day cruise in the middle of the blazing hot summer, the AC in our room went out and there were no other rooms on the ship available and they could not fix it and again no credit was extended. I wrote letters and stuff even after getting off the ship and they sent me a 25 dollar onboard credit and that was it. People have come down with the Norovisus on cruises and been compensated nothing.

People have been given rooms in categories less than the ones they paid for and not reimbursed the difference. I still cruise with RCCI even though they did not reimburse that woman and I still cruise with Carnival even though they did not compensate me. And, it is because of people like me that cannot afford to sail with other companies that Carnival and RCCI can treat people in this manner.. because they know that 75 percent of their passengers will sail with them again, even if no credit is ever extended.

Now, you tell me how I am supposed to believe that RCCI was supposed to feel so bad for this woman for something that was not their fault if cruise liners in general most often will not extend any credits for their own screw ups?

The family did not have any money because they had not yet recieved their home owners insurance money from the house burning down. They had to go ahead and find somewhere else to stay and pay money for that out of their savings. And not knowing how long they were going to have to pay rent at another place and having to buy brand new furniture was a neccissity.

AGAIN...... MY ONLY POINT EVER WAS JUST THIS:

IF THE CRUISE LINES OFFERED THE SAME DINING COURSE ON FORMAL NIGHT IN AN ALTERNATIVE DINING AREA THEN THE PEOPLE WHO CHOOSE NOT TO DRESS UP OR CANNOT AFFORD TO DRESS UP CAN EAT THE SAME MEAL AS YOU IN A DIFFERENT PLACE SO THAT YOUR HIGHNESS DOES NOT FEEL DISRESPECTED. :-)

DEAN>> THE PEOPLE WOULD NOT ATTEND IN LESS THAN FORMAL WEAR IF THEY WERE GIVEN THE SAME MENU OPTIONS ELSEWHERE.

Oh, and Happy Thanksgiving everyone.

Oh yeah .. one more thing..... I am a lesbian and my last girlfriend prior to this one was a tomboy and does not wear dresses. She dressed in a tux instead and I am sure MANY people thought that was disrespectful. But, it would have been disrespectful of people to expect her to wear something that she is not comfortable in either. We always dressed the part however. MY POINT IS... that people are always going to find something to nitpick about and say they were being disrespected. Nothing better to do in their lives. It is sad.
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  #72 (permalink)  
Old November 24th, 2006, 02:45 AM
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Carnival and RCCI treat their customers generally very very well...they couldn't stay in business unless they did. They may not my 'cup of tea'...but then, my ship preferance most likely is not yours.

Cruising is competitive with cruise lines all working for the same slice of the pie, so no company or industry can afford to be as consistantly rude and unaccommodating to their customers as you would like us believe or imply.

Dress codes would/could not be the same on all cruise lines because each company has their own appeal and marketing nitch, and that's GOOD for everyone.

Your posts continue to be a little dramatic ...geared of course to 'push' buttons. A lot of information on various issues all tightly squeezed into one or two paragraphs! If nothing else....Entertaining!

BTW: Of course, I would chose NOT to believe someone I HARDLY KNOW...That doesn't make a person stupid...that's common sense!!!!
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Old November 24th, 2006, 01:27 PM
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[quote="italianfemmy"]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fruitcake

Okay, so in YOUR experiences you have gotten the lowest prices in advance and in MY experiences I have gotten the lowest prices as last minute deals within the last month. I do drive to all of the ports. Mobile Alabama is 10 hours away and Port Canaveral and Miami are within 12 hours away so I choose to drive both ways.
Not just in my experiences ...
But in many, many others' experiences too.
I belong to several message boards and do a lot of reading about cruising. I have a large number of friends who cruise.
It is **common knowledge** that prices go up as the cruise gets closer.
Economics 101 -- supply and demand.
When a ship begins selling out its cabins on any given cruise, the cruise line jacks up the prices.
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Old November 24th, 2006, 01:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fieldmouse
I'm begining to think your story may be just a little too pat or maybe you've padded the 'facts' a little for affect:

....Family's house burns to the ground 2 weeks pior to sailing...no money, no clothes, no travel insurance, and according to you, it's a good thing there's food on the cruise because they had no food...RCCI refuses in this desperate situation even to give the family a credit for a later sailing date. (RCCI should not be condemned for not giving them a total refund, but wasn't even a FUTURE cruise credit offered?)

You post this 'story' to elicit a specific emotional response in order to drive home your argument...we're touched...but at the same time expect us to believe that RCCI wasn't touched at ALL by the families tragedy?

BTW: The point of trip insurance is because 'extreme emergency' situations happen. That's why you purchase 'Insurance'.

As for posting on the family's situation...of course we're going to comment on it, that's WHY you posted the story.
Fielmouse, again you are the voice of reason!
I've been thinking along these same lines as well ...

It's all about the drama, isn't it?!!!
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Old November 24th, 2006, 02:17 PM
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Default Personally I don't care

I really could care less whether or not you believe me.

Whether or not the woman on the ship had lost her home in a fire or she hadn't.....

I would still feel the same way......

That you SHOULD be able to eat in an elternative dining area and be served the same meal as everyone else on formal evening and this way, the people in the formal dining area will not feel disrespeted and those who choose not to participate can eat the same food in comfort elsewhere without people gawking at them in terror!

I think it is funny as much as you love to disagree with me, that neither of you can or will TALK ABOUT the actual message I am trying to get across. That's because you don't have a good reason to disagree with it so instead, you will continue putting down people you don't even know.

As for your common sense about cruising getting more expensive the closer it gets... like I said before I ALWAYS Book in the same month and get the last minute cruise deals. For me, this works because I can take time off of my job when I want to and I can drive to the ports I choose to embark from. I always get the better deals and it is always me at my dinner tabe who everyone envies for the price I paid to get on not only that cruise but all of the other ones I have taken as well.

In fact, in another message board, one of the people going on my Dec 4th cruise just posted yesterday that there was just another huge price drop on the cruise we are going on, hmmmm sailing date is only 10 days away now and you can get the 5 day cruise for 159 for an OCEANVIEW category 6B. I know people that have paid 400 to go to the Bahamas for three days. And, if ever we should cross paths on a cruise ship, I can almost guarantee I will have paid less for the same cabin as you because I choose to wait until the last month.

Granted, it may not always work out that way. Sometimes there isn't any availability on the last month. The cruise was a hot seller and sold out months in advance. And then I get over it and look for the next hot deal.

By the way, I have seen your posts in other message boards and feel you are more rational in them even if your opinions do not match the opinions of the other person.

Ciao
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Old November 24th, 2006, 03:42 PM
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You know what I enjoy... the choice I have on lines. Yes, I do the formal in tux and black tie if it suits me to do so, I do semi formal in trousers, tie and jacket. I do casual in smart shirt and trousers (or pants whatever you call them).

But that is me and the really good thing I have learned from this thread, is it is only that... "my choice". Actually I did not learn that , I was always that way as a person.

Some of you might feel bad about me turning up at a "formal" night in smart shirt and pants, but its my choice that I dont want to get the "tux" on.... but I will still be in that dining room 8) , you may not like it,, but the maitre'd has just welcomed me walking in and I'm going to my table.

And it happens every week, as sure as ships cruise the world. It's today's reality.

I feel really sorry for those that cannot move on and understand that, its not disrespect...look at the person not their clothes.

This is a "fellow" people thing and not a ship / line debate. Okay... so you do not agree that its "people" then post me a link from any line that say's that I cannot eat in the dining room "on that night" because I dont have my "TUX" on. I dare you, you will not find it

Show me that rule, if you cant then its not a line issue, but your own personal expecation of others and how they should react....no winner there
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Old November 24th, 2006, 08:15 PM
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DBG: I checked my cruise documents and found these references for your consideration.

For Celebrity in their 'Guest Behavior Policies' on page 3 ...article #9...
listed as 'Dress Code - Non-compliance' it says (a direct quote FROM THAT PAGE)

"If guests do not comply with ship's dress code, as outlined in the ship's daily, especially during formal nights and elegant tea, the Maitre'd or Assistant Maitre'd reserves the right to ask the guest to comply with the suggested dress code. If guest continues to ignore the request, then Security will be contacted to ask the guest to leave the premises or comply with the dress code."

DBG...these are not my words..but Celebrity's (I had Celebrity copy the 3 pages of Guest Behavior Policies for me since our last cruise because of this very question)

HAL and RCCI has the same policy written out in every cabin too!

In fact, in my RCCI Guest Documents, on page 2 under "What Should I Pack? under Formal, "Cocktail dresses for women; suits and ties or tuxedos for men".

Under Evening Attire, RCCI continues..."The following will help you plan your evening attire onboard ship"...then they list the cruise days with how many formal, smart casual and casual nights. If you decide NOT to conform to the evening attire they continue, "Each ship also offers a variety of casual dining options each night".

HAL is the same as Celebrity.

ALL offer extra reminders of the evening dress code by posting them in front of the dining room (displayed all day) In your daily newsletter...AND in your cruise documents.

We’re NOT trying to impose our ideas, customs and traditions on others...these are the guidelines the CRUISE LINES have themselves established.

On our last visit to Mazatlan, Mexico, a friend of ours who has relocated there.. while giving us a personal tour of the city, began telling us of some of the readjustments he and his wife were having to make living in a foreign country...one of them involved driving. He explained, “You see in Mexico, some drivers view the 'Stop' sign as a SUGGESTION, up to the driver to decide if they want to stop or not...A lot of Americans get rear-ended! “(they stop!) Funny, but true.

The cruise lines established these 'dress codes'...we didn't make them up or imagine them...THEY DID! They don't hide the codes, leaving it up to ‘word of mouth’...’rumor’ or even ‘guess work’. THEY BOLDLY PRINT THEM UP and even post them.

Maybe some cruisers find it more convenient to interpret these 'codes' as 'suggestions', and evidently that continues to be a personal choice...but it doesn't change the FACT...the 'dress codes' have been established NOT by 'cruise mate' posters trying to impose their 'cyber conscience' on others...but the cruise lines themselves.
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Old November 25th, 2006, 02:11 AM
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Default Fieldmouse

It is always interesting to read what you write on these message boards. I called Carnival and asked them why they print the required formal attire if they refuse to make everyone adhere to these standards and guess what they told me. I bet you'll never guess.

" Well, Ma'am, you see... a lot of people complained when people showed up to dinner in less than formal attire so we started putting it in the literature so that those guests would feel like we were trying to help them out." She then went on to say, " But, Ma'am at the end of the day, it is your vacation and we would never throw you out of the dining room for not wearing formal attire."

I called and asked this question out of curiosity and honestly, it was no surprise to hear in more polite words what really meant , " A bunch of snobby people with nothing better to do filled out their comment cards and complained that some of the people were getting away with not wearing formal attire. WHHHHAAAAAHHHHHHH!!!!!!

Anyway, just thought I would share what the response to this ridiculous situation was.

Fieldmouse, are you completely against the idea of offering the formal menu options in an alternative dining place? You have yet to respond to this.

Hope everyone had a Happy Thanksgiving.
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Old November 25th, 2006, 09:25 AM
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Default Re: Now you are all set for the Righteous Indignation that i

Quote:
Originally Posted by Texasmunk
is sure to come!

'It doesn't bother me, so why should it bother you?"

"It's my *#^@_*$% cruise, mind your own #&$*#@+ business!"

But! There is hope. Many companies that went with "business casual" have discovered that there is little interest inthe office for viewing a co-worker's belly piercings, there is a limit to that employee wearing a T-shirt that says '*#@& everyone! there is little interest in hearing rubber flip-flops coming down the hall past the executive offices.

The trend, very slowly, is turning.

I wonder if those that leap to defend the slobs would feel the same way if those slobs were at your table and decided that they should also exercise their freedom onf speech in front of your 8 year old child. Or choose to wear their muscle shirt after a day of beach volleyball and not shower before coming to dinner, after all, it is their cruise and according to the defenders, they can do any $^#*@&# they want!
We actually had that one cruise. Smelly people who needed to bathe at a table near us on formal night. A guy the other side of us was in his tropical shirt and shorts but at least he ws clean and had no odors!
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Old November 25th, 2006, 10:59 AM
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Interesting.

Well...we've already established several post back, that not all cruise lines have the same dress code guidelines.

None the less...to address your point.

Let's say you hire a plumber to do some repair work on your shower. He gives you a price of $1800.00 and writes it in a contract. It's a good price so you agree...later, while one of his employee is working, you ask him if that price includes new bathroom fixtures, the employee says, "Yeah, yeah, no problem of course it does".

When the job is finished, you notice they put your OLD fixtures back on. You call the plumber angry and defensive..."Hey, your employee said the price included new fixtures!".

"I never said that, our contract doesn’t say that. Read our contract."

Our contract is with the Cruise lines, not with the various employees. Any verbal statement made by an employee that contradicts the written contract will not hold up. Anyone can say anything, that's why we have contracts, to be sure we have a 'meeting of the minds'.

This same written contract, some don’t bother to read, can suddenly become very important when:

1. Ports are missed (no way! You can’t miss that port, it’s WRITTEN in my itinerary)
2. Port times are changed (Hey, you can’t change Port times...it’s WRITTEN on the schedule from 8-5pm!)

All of a sudden that written agreement/contract becomes holy scripture, NOT open to verbal interpretation by some lowely employee, let alone the Captain! We had a contract, the cruise line better live up to it, or... or we'll sue!

The one thing that should have grab your attention right off was when the employee said, " Well, Ma'am, you see... a lot of people complained when people showed up to dinner in less than formal attire..."

According to YOUR quote, " A LOT of people complained...." We've established that Carnival is a cruise line directed to the mass market, the MAJORITY. (That's not a bad thing..it's their nitch!) So, it's not a small group of snobs that's dictating the dress code. But, still she may be right, THEY might not ask a passenger to leave if not properly dressed. But understand that employee's statement to you is not in their written contract...and it most certainly CANNOT be interpreted to apply to other cruise lines.

As for the formal dining menu being offered in a casual dining venue...I don't know if that IS an option because of location.

While on the Infinity...we dined in the alterative casual on several nights and their Kitchen location and staff seemed different. I may be wrong, but that was our impression.
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Old November 25th, 2006, 01:16 PM
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"If guests do not comply with ship's dress code, as outlined in the ship's daily, especially during formal nights and elegant tea, the Maitre'd or Assistant Maitre'd reserves the right to ask the guest to comply with the suggested dress code."

Fieldmouse,
The above quote is what you posted from Celebrity's contract. I think that the point here is the fact that it states that enforcement is entirely up to the Maitre'd or assistant. That is entirely in keeping with upscale restaraunts, old style etiquette or new. It simply hasn't changed much over time. No doubt there is a wide range of enforcement in today's cruise industry, but it is still not up to us to insist on compliance or non-compliance.
Re. the original post, on HAL, you can have anything on the dinner menu delivered to your cabin during dining room hours. My husband did that once when he wasn't feeling perky and loved it. Me, I love the formal nights. But, I do agree that making the same food available was a nice touch. He was worn out from a tour he did in port. That is something we can't do at home, so we always put more priority on port activities. Dining out we can do anytime. Although I must admit that, living in Flroida, I look a tad odd in formal wear in most restaraunt. But, that wouldn't bother either of us.
Marty
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Old November 25th, 2006, 02:54 PM
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Here is my problem and for all said above, you gave it to me Fieldmouse and I quote you "these are the guidelines the CRUISE LINES have themselves established"

Key word there was and in your own words "guideline" and that is all they are....Its not a law,,,,its only a guide, and by calling it a guide, it takes responsibility off them and onto their passengers

So this "guidline" is then only enforced in opinion and thought from passenger to passenger...but never the line. Yes they can place a "guidline" in a brochure, but do they back it up....No as it is only a guidline, and not enforced as a ship rule.

Please remember that I am not for slobs turning up at my dinner table, but if presented smart and tidy and appear intelligent, I will listen to your thoughts, chat and have a laugh...but not spend my night worrying about the fact that you dont have "fancy" on. If people do that then "they" alienate themself from the night, not me
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Old November 25th, 2006, 03:02 PM
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Yup...it seems the problem is enforcement. Some ships do enforce...some Maitre'd's working the same cruise line don't. There needs to be a set standard of enforcement.

It would sure help us in these forums!
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Old November 25th, 2006, 03:31 PM
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your okay Fieldmouse, and you can turn up at my table anytime in "whatever" and why, because you think. We might never agree, but I would rather have a table of people that I can talk to and if it suits debate a scenario into the night. Till they chuck us out

When I am allocated a table, then personally I worry more about that, more than anything else, WHO am I going to be landed with, and worry more about that than what they are wearing. Its the same people, either dressed up fancy for 2 nights and out of 14 So they have a tux on and after 4 days of being a pain in the ass at my table. I should think of them diffferent for that night

Meeting people that I can associate with makes my cruise as I dont get impressed by peoples dress and how they present themself. Presentation to me is what comes out their mouth, and not their clothes
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Old November 25th, 2006, 04:55 PM
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Since most ships have more then one restuarannt-why not have those who wish not to particpate in formal night be assigned to a differant restuarant and there still be some sort of code-you know-still no jeans, shorts, tees with slogans and cut-offs etc.-but at least smart casual.

The same goes for shows-maybe there could be a late night show for those who don't dress formal.
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Old November 25th, 2006, 08:06 PM
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Momo,

That's what I have been saying all along. Offer the same thing to the people who don't have fancy formal wear.


ONLY 9 DAYS LEFT until my next cruise!! Wooo Hoooo
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Old November 25th, 2006, 09:05 PM
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David, let's give up! We both appreciate people for what they are, not what they wear, but that means nothing to the clothes police.

Some of the people who have posted here must get indigestion on formal night when they see another person that they feel is not dressed appropriately. I just hope that it doesn't ruin their cruise.

For the last time on this thread, Live and let live and you will live longer.
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Old November 26th, 2006, 01:51 PM
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Default For DBG, Paul and Fruitcake

Or for us:

We would rather HAVE honor than BE Honored!
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Old November 30th, 2006, 03:27 PM
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mmmmm, its all personal expection against the reality for some, and that is what winds them up...as this person "should" in my opinion...do this.

And on that you can never argue, people's own expectations for their buck payed, but its only that... expectation of others. But they let your expectations down at home as people, so dont see being on a ship as any diffferent.

Okay Paul, point taken 8)
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Old December 7th, 2006, 01:41 PM
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I'm a clothes snob. Business casual is fine as long as everyone knows what is and what is not business casual. And people should know what is and what is not expected with respect to dress on cruises.

If I am seated at a table with someone who is dressed like they just came from Six Flags (or worse). I will say "Did you win this cruise?". But, on the flip side, I have been seated with people who dress very out of style (leisure suits!) because they don't know better, but at least they made the effort!

Dressing well is a sign of respect for yourself and others at the event. You might not have a lot of money, but if you dress well, who'll know?
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